New features and changes of upcoming patch 469f

[Patrick Bateman]

v470 will be retrocompatible with v436 and 469 ?

in some sort. You can open 469 stuff in 470, but can't play together.
And stuff which saved in 470 will not open in 469.

So you can use 469 content in 470 and basically all.   
Auto merged new post submitted 1 minute later

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Also no WinXP support for 470. Vista is min version.

And likely no Win32 builds. Only Win64.

thanks.
i have windows 11 64 bits . i don't know who still under windows XP but i don't think many player.

my goal was to ensure players will still able to play on my server if i turn it on v470, because i don't want lost players.

I am under win XP as my main OS. I do not understand people who want to get rid from XP compatibility in UT99. You want less players every year until no one left on servers? Win 11 is shit.

[yurkapotam]

I am under win XP as my main OS. I do not understand people who want to get rid from XP compatibility in UT99. You want less players every year until no one left on servers? Win 11 is shit.

the source code of UT had huge hacks just to work with Windows 95/98
support for Windows 95/98 isn't in 469 anymore to make development easier
at this point, adding new features is becoming increasingly harder if wanting to keep compatibility with Windows XP
you can just switch to Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10, or even Linux (windows users migrating to Linux might like Linux Mint)
and you don't have to use the new patches, even 436 is working perfectly on my PC without any crashes and other bad things

[Metallicafan212]

v470 will be retrocompatible with v436 and 469 ?

in some sort. You can open 469 stuff in 470, but can't play together.
And stuff which saved in 470 will not open in 469.

So you can use 469 content in 470 and basically all.   
Auto merged new post submitted 1 minute later

---

Also no WinXP support for 470. Vista is min version.

And likely no Win32 builds. Only Win64.

thanks.
i have windows 11 64 bits . i don't know who still under windows XP but i don't think many player.

my goal was to ensure players will still able to play on my server if i turn it on v470, because i don't want lost players.

I am under win XP as my main OS. I do not understand people who want to get rid from XP compatibility in UT99. You want less players every year until no one left on servers? Win 11 is shit.

So move to linux then. XP is 24 years old man, and there's no (supported) 64bit version. Like it or not, we're eventually moving to 64bit only for performance, optimization, and memory reasons. You can continue to use 436/469 all you want, but 470 WILL be 64bit only. There is no room for discussion. Wanna blame someone? Blame me, I pushed for 64bit only, it helps cleanup our code, increases base performance for 99% of people, and the very vast majority of people run modern windows or linux. We can't keep making exceptions for every single person, otherwise we would be supporting windows 95 right now, a 30 year old OS. Software evolves, and compilers go out of date. XP has been out of support for many many years, so much so we're forced to use a 12 year old version of visual studio to even compile for it (VS2012/2013). That means: we can't use any library that uses C++17 features, or we have to use old versions, leaving in many security vulnerabilities that have since been long patched out. Having XP support makes it a worse experience overall for everyone else.

In order to keep providing patches, we need to keep making the code better, not worse. Remember: this is 100% free, you're getting a game for free with active support from people that do it entirely for free. Again: the people that keep demanding things like XP support have no clue how hard it is to keep that going in 2025.

However: you have a long time until you need to upgrade. 470 has no release date, it's likely going to take many years (maybe even a decade) to even get to the testing stage on it. There is a 469e, there will be a 469f, there may be a 469g 469h, etc.

[Deepu]

I don't why guys are sticking with old buckets?

@Buggie which map is that?

[sektor2111]

Probably you did not catch what was told about these patches by A.I. ...
It is not like touching "Texture" properties was a great idea. It's not like increasing processing nodes hard-coded at 2000 instead of calculating a limit CPU based was a solution "it's only a bandage - and a wrong applied one", etc. In other subjects, indeed 469 does something better than its predecessors but it's not faster in scripting subject (I demonstrated this already).
436 allows you more CPU resources in Editor due to some features which are gone in 469. Me one when I work at pathing chapter I'm losing patience with that 469d - there is no XC_Engine support in further variants, and neither a replacement done directly in Editor for doing desired configuration.
This is not 100% about OS used, it is about what could be done but... we don't add there all needed tools - I doubt that a 64 bit variant will have access at everything from "Level". And there were ZERO reasons to fix "timer" in Editor. For building a map it's not needed a fixed timer. "Timer" and "Tick" are not having too much use in Editor, that's run-time stuff. It doesn't matter, you can keep fixing things that are not broken.

[Buggie]

@Buggie which map is that?

In video appear EhactoraFour map from Fifth Vortex map.

[f7r]

This is all great, but I hope that the 436-470 evolution does not turn out like the winxp-win11.

[Metallicafan212]

This is all great, but I hope that the 436-470 evolution does not turn out like the winxp-win11.

What do you mean by that?

[f7r]

This is all great, but I hope that the 436-470 evolution does not turn out like the winxp-win11.

What do you mean by that?

I mean, for its time, the winxp is a masterpiece, and the win11 is an annoyance. Personally, I haven't used any windows for about 9 years. As confirmation of this, we can look at the loss of windows user share during this time. I will use anything OS but a Win11. Even though I'm a DevOps and have to deal with this else's crap every single day.

[Metallicafan212]

This is all great, but I hope that the 436-470 evolution does not turn out like the winxp-win11.

What do you mean by that?

I mean, for its time, the winxp is a masterpiece, and the win11 is an annoyance. Personally, I haven't used any windows for about 9 years. As confirmation of this, we can look at the loss of windows user share during this time. I will use anything OS but a Win11. Even though I'm a DevOps and have to deal with this else's crap every single day.

I wouldn't call XP a "masterpiece", even back in the day it had some very nasty bugs (such as the "hall of mirrors" issues with the desktop that people love to recreate). It was the first consumer NT OS, but man it could get nasty.... Back in the day, every couple of years I used to have to reinstall XP due to it just getting way too bloated and slow (or even just excessively crashing). It's "good" for the time, but it was never perfect. Modern windows has at least fixed the "aging install slowdown issues", but also PCs are just so dang fast these days, it's not much of an issue.

IMO, people put XP on a pedestal, one part nostalgia, one part the absolute long time that OS ran in the mainstream for (nearly a decade).

[Buggie]

12. Faster render Search light effect (x2-x4 faster)

In 469f improved render for LE_SearchLight effect (rotating light).

Now it make x2-x4 FPS more (depends from scene).

However if before FPS be stable low, now it fluctuate and depends where light wedge is. When light wedge located on complicated areas it make lower FPS, from when it on simple areas.

[Patrick Bateman]

So move to linux then. XP is 24 years old man, and there's no (supported) 64bit version. Like it or not, we're eventually moving to 64bit only for performance, optimization, and memory reasons. You can continue to use 436/469 all you want, but 470 WILL be 64bit only. There is no room for discussion. Wanna blame someone? Blame me, I pushed for 64bit only, it helps cleanup our code, increases base performance for 99% of people, and the very vast majority of people run modern windows or linux. We can't keep making exceptions for every single person, otherwise we would be supporting windows 95 right now, a 30 year old OS. Software evolves, and compilers go out of date. XP has been out of support for many many years, so much so we're forced to use a 12 year old version of visual studio to even compile for it (VS2012/2013). That means: we can't use any library that uses C++17 features, or we have to use old versions, leaving in many security vulnerabilities that have since been long patched out. Having XP support makes it a worse experience overall for everyone else.

In order to keep providing patches, we need to keep making the code better, not worse. Remember: this is 100% free, you're getting a game for free with active support from people that do it entirely for free. Again: the people that keep demanding things like XP support have no clue how hard it is to keep that going in 2025.

However: you have a long time until you need to upgrade. 470 has no release date, it's likely going to take many years (maybe even a decade) to even get to the testing stage on it. There is a 469e, there will be a 469f, there may be a 469g 469h, etc.

WinXP 64-bit Professional was released in April 2005. We do have 64-bit edition of Win-XP for 20 years! And it is considered, by some people, as best Windows ever!

XP has been out of support for many many years, so much so we're forced to use a 12 year old version of visual studio to even compile for it (VS2012/2013).

I see this as good thing, not as bad thing. Because more Operational Systems support included = more players online.

However: you have a long time until you need to upgrade. 470 has no release date, it's likely going to take many years (maybe even a decade) to even get to the testing stage on it. There is a 469e, there will be a 469f, there may be a 469g 469h, etc.

10 years later we will have much LESS players online, not more. By this time even win10 (which i hate) will be considered completely obsolete.
Anyway i am grateful that XP will supported in all 469 patches - this is cool.   
P.S. Will in some feature 469 patches be support for Ogg Vorbis or other similar audio formats?

[Metallicafan212]

WinXP 64-bit Professional was released in April 2005. We do have 64-bit edition of Win-XP for 20 years! And it is considered, by some people, as best Windows ever!

XP 64bit and XP 32bit are completely different operating system wearing the same suit and tie. XP 64bit is server 2003 under the hood. It was an OS made to honor a contract with AMD, not to be the "next" version of Windows. Microsoft hedged their bets on both competing 64bit architectures (Itanium and AMD64). AMD64 handily won out, so Vista was that version of 64bit.

XP 64bit was never a consumer OS, it also didn't get much support from Microsoft, and most hardware vendors skipped it. You will have a VERY hard time trying to run it on any system, as driver support was nearly nonexistent. In order to build a machine to run it, you would need to consult a database of known hardware with drivers, the OS supports 64bit drivers ONLY.

It might as well not exist with how little it actually got used. In fact, try to go buy a copy of it, you can't get a boxed copy as it was sold to OEMs only. They would only ship it for workstations and servers. A year later, Vista releases with consumer, business, and enterprise stacks unified under 64bit and 32bit. Anyone that actually needed 64bit got Vista. I have a CD case copy of XP 64bit, it's marked to be installed on a "renewed" workstation only; this is the only way to get XP 64bit media.

Also: iirc, XP 64bit only got DirectX 9b, not even DirectX 9c (which most middle to late 2000s games use). You would not want to use this version of XP

So, frankly, it's one of the most useless windows versions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_X ... 64_Edition

I see this as good thing, not as bad thing. Because more Operational Systems support included = more players online.

Again: running XP online now, and into the future is a terrible idea. And again: you ignored how I described that it's not easy at all. There isn't a large nomadic group of people stuck in 2003 with old hardware and XP that are also foaming at the mouth to play UT in 2025.

10 years later we will have much LESS players online, not more. By this time even win10 (which i hate) will be considered completely obsolete.

Windows 10 will probably see Microsoft still continuing unofficial support, since it's the last 32bit version of Windows. And again: in 10 years, XP will be even MORE out of date and insecure. Even more reasons why, 10 years from now (30 years from the release of XP), it shouldn't even be an argument.

P.S. Will in some feature 469 patches be support for Ogg Vorbis or other similar audio formats?

It already does, AlAudio only in the non-XP builds, Galaxy doesn't support it and there is no plans on further development on Galaxy (since it's a proprietary assembly library). OGG, FLAC, etc. has been a thing in 469 for a long time, 469a had it on the initial release afair.

[ferapontikov]

I don't why guys are sticking with old buckets?

I have no money. If someone gives me some,

Spoiler

I'll buy a new computer.

[Patrick Bateman]

XP 64bit and XP 32bit are completely different operating system wearing the same suit and tie. XP 64bit is server 2003 under the hood.

I know that. And that make it's so good, because server 2003 was awesome.

it also didn't get much support from Microsoft, and most hardware vendors skipped it. You will have a VERY hard time trying to run it on any system, as driver support was nearly nonexistent. In order to build a machine to run it, you would need to consult a database of known hardware with drivers, the OS supports 64bit drivers ONLY.

I don't know what are your sources are, but this all are wrong cliches.
XP64 have, for it's time, normal driver support - all my devices have XP64 native drivers, whether it's laser printer, my Creative Sound Card, my Geforce GTX 980 or my Phenom II X4 CPU etc. Literally ALL my devices have support for XP 64. Granted i acquired GTX980 knowing it is last generation of Nvidia working with XP64, but hey, it's works.

In fact, try to go buy a copy of it, you can't get a boxed copy as it was sold to OEMs only.

Long story - short: I use Slipstream-ed SP2 version from torrents that i further sleapstream-ed to have updates up to 2019.

XP 64bit only got DirectX 9b, not even DirectX 9c (which most middle to late 2000s games use). You would not want to use this version of XP

Perhaps you confusing it with Itanium version which was abandoned by Microsoft around 2005. AMD64 version - Windows XP Professional x64 Edition support DirectX 9.0c to the latest june 2010 - i know that because i personally installed it on my PC.

It already does, AlAudio only in the non-XP builds, Galaxy doesn't support it and there is no plans on further development on Galaxy (since it's a proprietary assembly library). OGG, FLAC, etc. has been a thing in 469 for a long time, 469a had it on the initial release afair.

Thanks, i did not know that.
Anyway, again, thanks for supporting XP in 469 - this is great and i like it very much.

P.S. What going on your avatar? Is that David Lynch in Darth Vader suit?