NW3, elements and stuff

[PSL-500]

i must say..dude..u have done one hell of a job...i think UT99 could really use mods like this...coz its been going on for so many years..it did needed a mod which changes d gameplay...
i had got bored of botmatches..and started playing online...but wen i got NW2..i once again started loving playing botmatches...and now i am certainlyy a fan of urs
loved each and every weapon.
the sad thing is that there arent many servers which has NW...(or maybe i just dont know about them)
anyway i wanted to ask u two things....
i am a rocket launcher fan..and love playing in rocket launcher arenas...so is there any way with which d rocket launcher(or any other weapon in general) of NW(2 or 3) is d only weapon on d map???
secondly..just out of curiosity....in d weapons of ancient nali..u have used elemental weapons..u used elements like water(ice) ,earth ,fire and even gravity...how come u didnt used air..after all its one of d four main elements???
.

[Feralidragon]

1) Well, the mutators that come with the pack will give the possibility to replace the weapons you want, and also build "arenas" as well, but I wasn't thinking in adding a "arena in this map" kinda feature, although that sounds indeed interesting.
I will think about that (if it doesn't come in the first release, it can be done as a standalone mutator to use with NW3 or any other mod).

2) As for the elements: well, the general view of elements is "fire, water, air, earth" yes, but that's for humans on Earth, nali have a total different view of things and in the original story I was/am going to make (as a single player campaign which was the main objective on the creation of this pack at the beginning), Nali believed in 5 slightly different elements as part of the universe as a whole:
- Fire: the element of energy, heat, that makes everything to change, to be created and to perish [stars];
- Ice (also aka water or air actually in this case): the element of fluidity, maintenance, analog to fire [atmosphere of planets, after all "air" is actually frozen in most planets, I think you get the idea];
- Earth: the element of neutrality, strength [rocky planet, asteroids, planetoids, etc]
- Electricity: the element of balance, analog to earth [defines the matter itself]
- Gravity: the element of union [keeps everything together in harmony]

And for each one, there's a corresponding "tool" that nali were forced to modify and make them actual weapons, that's pretty much it. It's not that I "forgot", my (nali) version of elements is different (the "4 elements" thing is kinda old imo).

[PSL-500]

oh yeah..rite..i forgot...these weapons are all related to d single player campaign u plan to builld..rite..changing d basic elements is a really coool and totally new concept...u really have some big things planned..
all d best for NW 3....and all of ur future works

- Ice (also aka water or air actually in this case): the element of fluidity, maintenance, analog to fire [atmosphere of planets, after all "air" is actually frozen in most planets, I think you get the idea];

well i dont noe d background story or d world of nalis that u hav thought about...but are u sayin that ice represent-both air and water???

[Feralidragon]

- Ice (also aka water or air actually in this case): the element of fluidity, maintenance, analog to fire [atmosphere of planets, after all "air" is actually frozen in most planets, I think you get the idea];

well i dont noe d background story or d world of nalis that u hav thought about...but are u sayin that ice represent-both air and water???

Yep. Think about it, even our own planet (in RL) is believed that the origin of our atmosphere and liquid water was due to comets that had both of those frozen (and with heat they turned in to liquid (water) and gas form (air: nitrogen, oxigen), so why not "Ice" as representing both air and water since their primary form is frozen in comets and other planets?
Plus, being fire the complementary element of ice, is what makes ice changing into these, but they're still the same thing (remember, fire is an element of enery, reaction, change).
The base of the nali elements is how the universe is composed by itself, this is basically my own idea for what they could think as elements.

[PSL-500]

hmm..well..the problem with using "ice" to represent air along with d above theory is..u c "ice" is frozen water..not frozen "gas(i.e air)"...so though it can be used for water i dont really see how it gets related to "air"(unless in nali world 'ice' refers to 'any frozen material'...but then doing so mite confuse the gamers who will play or hear it)...
maybe if instead of ice u had used some other term..like "freeze" than it wud have been more apt..though even freeze isnt d right term..but better than 'ice'(according to normal meaning)

btw..is this d rite place to discuss this??since i really doubt that u will be creating another weapon for air...if u remove "ice" representing air...i feel that we are now shifting from the nali weapons to the nali story that u have in mind...though i wud have liked a weapon..air is my fav elemental among all d 4..

[Feralidragon]

Well, you can create a new topic in General or Offtopic section if you want to further discuss this.
I still keep with the opinion that "ice" is a good way to represent both water and air, as like I mentioned, water and some gases are actually frozen as "ice" in comets, check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet#Phys ... cteristics

They are composed of rock, dust, water ice, and frozen gases such as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, methane and ammonia.

And since my base of the Nali beliefs is based on universe itself rather than a single planet (like the 4 elements thing), personally I don't consider those to be separated.

But anyway, I had an idea once to make a fully "elemental" mod where you could use and combine elements (as weapon forms which would hold some kind of "glowing spheres", and I had a unique name for it and everything, and these elements would be 8 and air and water would be separated), which if "evolved" enough you could create an "ultimate attack" (with its own cinematic sequence and music like japanese games, "ougi" style) using that element or mix of them, but I didn't proceed with it since the number of possible combos would be around over 250 (almost 100 of them if I just considered triple combos), plus I think I may do that as a standalone game instead some day in a newer engine with the actual effects I want to add (like in UEngine3.x with UDK or something), but if it ever happens it will be years from now.

[PSL-500]

hmm..well..i dont think that there is a need for a new topic..coz this will be my last query in respect to it....

They are composed of rock, dust, water ice, and frozen gases such as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, methane and ammonia.

lol..before my previous post..i also went to wikipedia and read about comets and their composition to make sure i was right
now..in d above quote...notice one thing...they have used "ice" and "frozen gases" as different terms..and havent combined them.

water and some gases are actually frozen as "ice" in comets

it doesnt says dat they are frozen "as ice"..it just says that comets "have".. ice .."and".. gases..not mixed together..its just like earth has land and water..but neither land nor water can represent both of them

.moreover..on wikipedia about "ice"(yes i read that too before commenting).it says that ice does contain some air impurities..but den concentration of air is pretty less..it wudnt be enuf to create the whole atmosphere..
i'm not sayin that water and air cant be combined....its just that d term "ice" cant be used to represent both...
from wat i am thinking.. a preferred option wud be to include air in electricity(and i already have a reason for how it can be done..not exactly..but to some extent it does fit in it....)

And since my base of the Nali beliefs is based on universe itself rather than a single planet (like the 4 elements thing), personally I don't consider those to be separated.

remember..they are "ancient" nalis..their beliefs wud have been made at d primitive stages of their species.they wudnt have had the spaceships or telescopes or technology to explore d universe..their beliefs are supposed to be based on wat they found on their own planet..it shudnt be based on d whole universe..as they wudnt have known anything about it

now well..thats all i can say...rest its all upto u..but i can tell u how air fits into electricity concept if u want

[Feralidragon]

Well, moved the posts here so anyone can discuss about this with no worries (specially PSL-500).

@Ice: As you can notice, I emphasized the "water ice" aspect, they don't say just "ice" but specify as "water ice", and in correct english you shouldn't use the same word twice in the same sentence in such documentation, so another expression for "water ice" is "frozen water", which are pretty much the same thing.
However, yeah, "ice" leads people to think mostly in water alone instead, but it's a better and more simple name than "frozen" or any other term.
The same way "fire" means also heat relative elements, yet technically "fire" is just a combustion process that involves 2 components and a trigger, and not heat alone.
So I still find "ice" as the appropriate name to represent both since "air" is indeed frozen in space in some bodies (comets and far planets and asteroids).

This is my own view of things, anyone is free to disagree of course, and I understand your reasoning and it's a perfectly valid one, but this one stays as my own.

@Ancient nalis and tech: Well, yet you're looking exactly at a mod with nuclear weapons called "Nali Weapons", no?
Unlike your ice arguments, sorry but this one is totally invalid in this context, since from the moment I build a tech mod which has the name "nali" in it, then my version of their nature and evolution isn't the same.
Although in the story I was/am going to pull off is perfectly compatible with the original concepts of Unreal, it has exactly that twist where nali aren't exactly the race they always seem to be (or at least they weren't always that way).
Did you ever heard the expression of "World War 4 will be with sticks and stones"? If you know what this expression means, then consider the same logic for nali race.

[PSL-500]

@ice--ya....i think i'm looking at it too much "technical" terms.....so alrite

@nali-well i dont think it will be rite to say anything about it by me since i dont know d story or anythng else...so thats fyn too

at a mod with nuclear weapons called "Nali Weapons"

theres diifference btween nuclear weapons and ancient beliefs...nuclear weapons wud have been built at a later stages of the evolution of their species..at a tym wen there technology wud be quite advanced..
whereas the ancient beliefs were created at a tym wen they were at a primitive stage...so that cant be compared...but otherwise..its fyn

talking about ur nuke weapons..u sure have shown wat a "nuke" is..in NW 2 blasts are so awsumn and take place for such a long tym that i died 4 tyms in just one shot from ultimaprotos ..that too in ctf face wen d shot was fired on other side of map

[Feralidragon]

@Ancient nali: good point, but my version of how they started to believe in those elements is a bit different, as the way they believe those elements wasn't created by nali themselves. I wish I had more free time to be able to build the sp that would explain what exactly I mean, while saying it here would spoil it entirely.

[PSL-500]

wow..u have really thought about everything in a quite unique and different way...and ya..telling d story wud spoil everything..
anyway..once again..good job