Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

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KeeperUTX
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Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by KeeperUTX » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:17 am

I can't really give an accurate name for the issue I'm experiencing since I don't know what's going on.

Ok, so I've decided to modify LavaGiant to be more fitting for NW3. Before I talk about the problem I'll give you a small description of the changes: bases are swapped, certain weapons will be moved around for more defensive purposes (ie Flak Cannon/The Miner takes the place of the Ripper/Freezer in the bases) and the "roof" of the map is now higher as well to better accommodate super weapons like the Ionizer. I intend to release the map after it is completed, if ever.

And here's the problem: once I cut out the roof for some more space, the textures in the new red (formerly the blue base) become invisible and glitchy - under certain angles they become visible again, but in most cases the textures are invisible. This occurs in the area of the Pulse Rifle and Shock Rifle. What am I doing wrong?
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Hellkeeper
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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by Hellkeeper » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:02 am

Sounds like a textbook case of bad geometry. CTF-Lavagiant is quite complex.

In zone-portal view, check if the disappearing polygons are the same colour as the ones around. If not, they may be misattributed to zone0.
Try changing some geometry around (even if only slightly, for instance the height of the new sky ceiling); this will change the partitionning and may fix the problem.
Try to zone off the blue base (now red base). Just for testing purposes: looking at it in the editor, it looks like it could easily be zoned (more easily than the red, now blue one).
Try and build the map with the first BSP slider set to 10 on "Minimize Cuts".
Last edited by Hellkeeper on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by Feralidragon » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:16 pm

I will just add this: if you re-build the BSP of any Epic original map, you will notice that they almost always become glitchy. I made modifications to original maps in the past (including lavagiant), and yeah, you will always face that kind of problems. I suggest you to treat it like your own map, and fix the map itself as if the problem was yours.

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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by EvilGrins » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:59 pm

I did a slight edit to my copy of that map, intend a few more.

You don't need the "ceiling" to be that high for the ionizer. I've a map called CTF-ValleyOfKings where the sky is quite low but the ionizer works just fine on it.
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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by papercoffee » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:26 pm

I have once edited Face ...some weapons are added/changed ...three bullets on the entrance of the tower for the starting point with the sniper. Changed the ripper with the Bio Rifle.
After a rebuild did I notice that the tower of the blue base got glitchy on the inside ...invisible brushes and HOMs.
I think I fixed it by rearrangeing the build-order and made some solid brushes semisolid and vice versa.

But yes, most of those default maps are very sloppy build ...it looks like "ah don't touch it anymore ...now it seems to work"

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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by KeeperUTX » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:59 pm

@Hellkeeper: Copypasted your instructions to a txt file since it's a bit confusing, but I think I can handle it. Thank you, fellow keeper.

@Feralidragon I WOULD treat it as my own problem, but I know next to nothing about these issues, Feralidragon, even less so as to solutions for them. Which is why I asked. I'd love to slam my head against this problem (like I normally do with my problems lol), but I feel a quicker solution may sometimes lie in the words of others. As such, anybody can call me a noob regarding UED, or at least I assume myself to be so.

@EvilGrins: True, but I find it highly irritating that the Ionizer satellite hovers just a few meters above the main cliff, making it a sitting duck, and if I make an attempt to deploy its attack on any point higher than i.e. the blue base's lowest part, the satellite jeopardizes its own safety. I like to see my sat fly higher, like on CTF-HallofGiants. And besides, I can only launch the thing in the lower levels. I'd set the minimal launch height lower, but I like the settings as they are, at least in the case of the Ionizer.

@papercoffee: Also added your part in the txt file about the semisolid mesh. I tend to forget about stuff like this, so a txt file comes in handy for me. Trust me, I'm not going to use your words to dominate the world or something. :ironic:
I was also thinking of modifying Face, but since there's already CTF-Facepalm I thought of it as kind of pointless. Though I am intending on removing the foliage on that map, it lags too much when NW3 is running. Not that I hate foliage, Creavion did an awesome job (Frag'n'brag didn't, since the bots keep throwing themselves into the abyss lol), but the foliage rapes my FPS when i.e. when I'm sniping.

Eitherway, I'll tell you guys whether this stuff solves it, which I'm certain it will.
Image This is Eevee, a ferocious creature that never relents in tracking its meal. It will lead you to ruin, and when it does, it will finish you.
The way it bobs its head lefty-righty? It's just cracking it's neck so it can get a better grip on you with its jaws.

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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by Feralidragon » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:10 pm

KeeperUTX wrote: @Feralidragon I WOULD treat it as my own problem, but I know next to nothing about these issues, Feralidragon, even less so as to solutions for them. Which is why I asked. I'd love to slam my head against this problem (like I normally do with my problems lol), but I feel a quicker solution may sometimes lie in the words of others. As such, anybody can call me a noob regarding UED, or at least I assume myself to be so.
Don't misunderstand, what I meant to say is that even though they are standard maps, you shouldn't expect them to re-build properly in UEd from the start, so it's not like you did something wrong, these maps are simply problematic from the beginning. As for solutions, look up for the typical topics on how to fix BSP issues in general (I don't remember the exact topics, but I think there are a couple here, and yeah, mappers around can help you out in doing so).

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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by UnrealGGecko » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:42 pm

May I remind you that Facepalm ain't the only good Face remake you can you ;) Should I make a small list of them?

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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by Hellkeeper » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:54 pm

KeeperUTX wrote:I WOULD treat it as my own problem, but I know next to nothing about these issues
Read this, entirely, and do not come back or touch UnrealEd until you've read every single thing on that page. Once it's done, read this other article. Afterwards, you may start fiddling with UnrealEd, using your new technical knowledge to try and improve things.

If needed, I have other articles. I'll fire up an entire list if needed.
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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by EvilGrins » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:47 am

Hellkeeper wrote:Read this, entirely, and do not come back or touch UnrealEd until you've read every single thing on that page. Once it's done, read this other article.
Hellkeeper, thanks for the links. I do edits with UnrealEd all the time (more skins than maps actually) but I kinda learned how to use it from scratch and suggestions from others... so those will help.

As this came up earlier in this thread, this is the lowest that you can effectively use the Ionizer:
Image
The thing seems to have built in limits to how low it can be situated, any closer to the ground than that and it won't even setup for launch. Only downside is targeting as it obviously can't go through solid rock to position itself... but once you have it over enemy territory it's pretty okay.

Haven't seen bots target it so far, though I had a pissed off Warlord fly up and attack it once... or try to mate with it. Hard to say for sure.
UnrealGecko wrote:May I remind you that Facepalm ain't the only good Face remake you can you ;) Should I make a small list of them?
My favorite Face map to edit:
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http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by KeeperUTX » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:24 pm

@Feralidragon: Oh, sorry. Thought you were saying "solve it yourself, don't bother us with it" :roll:

@UnrealGecko/GEx: Yes, please, make a list, but in the "Anyone got any maps fo' meh?" thread.

@Hellkeeper: You dare speak to a keeper of higher rank than you? Begone, foul Automaton! Return to... wherever it is you came from. I shall read thy tome, but should you dare speak before me again I will make sure the Bile Demons get to fart on you. (JK lol)

Anyway, I tried out the methods previously mentioned. At first I thought that the problem was solved and that my map was at long last ready for release... I thought wrong. Loads of other anomalies appeared across the map, from more invisible textures to BSP errors and so forth. I think I'm just going to scrap the map and start over, maybe just modify everything else but leave the structure of the map as-is via the subtracting option. I remember that the same thing happened when I modified something in DmAriza from the original Unreal, and it became glitchy as hell.

Still intending on releasing this map since gameplay will be modified somewhat. Once I redo it, anyway...

Case is closed, no need to assist anymore. You've been a wonderful audience :gj:
Image This is Eevee, a ferocious creature that never relents in tracking its meal. It will lead you to ruin, and when it does, it will finish you.
The way it bobs its head lefty-righty? It's just cracking it's neck so it can get a better grip on you with its jaws.

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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by Hellkeeper » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:57 pm

KeeperUTX wrote:Anyway, I tried out the methods previously mentioned. At first I thought that the problem was solved and that my map was at long last ready for release... I thought wrong. Loads of other anomalies appeared across the map, from more invisible textures to BSP errors and so forth. I think I'm just going to scrap the map and start over, maybe just modify everything else but leave the structure of the map as-is via the subtracting option. I remember that the same thing happened when I modified something in DmAriza from the original Unreal, and it became glitchy as hell.
A geometry error is usually not an isolated problem. It comes up after a number of poblems have accumulated; a HOM, some invisible polygons and so on are usually signs of many different problems with the map's geometry. Explore the map's BSP Cuts.
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Re: Strange issue in my altered LavaGiant

Post by KeeperUTX » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:57 pm

Right... after I read up on that tutorial.
Image This is Eevee, a ferocious creature that never relents in tracking its meal. It will lead you to ruin, and when it does, it will finish you.
The way it bobs its head lefty-righty? It's just cracking it's neck so it can get a better grip on you with its jaws.