Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

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Janssen
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Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Janssen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:38 pm

I've seen some clips of the claimed successor to unreal tournament named open tournament alpha. I cannot say that i am impressed with what i have seen and i don't expect that "things will get better along the way".

I do believe that the problem lies with not having a clear vision statement of what the next UT should be. Perhaps i am one of the few with an actual vision statement as to what it should be: A continuation of the same way UT99 worked except in a MMORPG with levels and varied equipment (armor/weapons/etc.) and zones of different levels à la world of warcraft.

Except if would bring the same basic playability of UT99 and the same skins and perhaps basic weapon sets.

This MMORPG would be an ever-evolving world where mappers could offer their creations to the central server that would decide to add them to the world or not. It would not exist in a single-map environment like the current UT but with multiple, inter-connected zones that would create a full world.

What is called mutators could be associated with certain zones. A BT zone. A SLV zone. etc.

For example, BT zones would offer rewards when completed. It could even be a chest à la Diablo 2 at the end of every BT zone that would offer a complicated choice of loads depending on the difficulty level of that specific zone, with an equivalent complexity in items (with runes and runewords, etc.)

As far as deathmatching goes, the whole world could be divided into 2 camps found far away at opposite parts of the world (or 4 like in 4-sided siege games, red/blue/gold/green) à la World of warcraft and there would be PVP, maybe even raids, between the sides. Perhaps the ability to loot a defeated enemy's corpse.

Actual game graphics don't need to be updated altho they can. It is not about having "beautiful sexy graphics" (which is the focus of people without visions) but about an actual gameplay that works.

Plus, current ut99 maps could be enabled (or archived )on the MMORPG in the form of connected zones... or doors in a a kind of "archive tower" where entering the door would load the map (and the end flag replaced with a reward of sorts). Even if the MMORPG supports better graphics, it could simply load a different engine temporarily to load the old maps.

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Hellkeeper
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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Hellkeeper » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:44 pm

Oh wow, I'm sorry to say, but that sounds like an absolutely atrocious idea, like "how to kill Unreal Tournalent 101", it's like the complete anihilation of anything Unreal Tournament, which is based on arena shooting with a given number of players to achieve a score. This is basically World Of Warcraft with UT theme and gimmicks tacked on hsatily at the end, and I don't think anyone would want this.
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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by UnrealGGecko » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:11 pm

For Gears Of War? Could work I guess...
For UT? Hell no!


Thread moved to off-topic. Have a nice day.

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Wises » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:18 pm

Cool vision :) I once thought about an FPS / Construction game kinda like UT mixed with TheSims and SimCity.
Players would be able to take on Roles and be either goodies or badies or both.
In combat situations they can fight in arenas like UT .. Perhaps.

Also individuals could build wicked houses and neighbourhoods.
Like mine craft but with modern graphics etc

Players could take on roles like police , firemen , etc and missions pertaining to those roles would give these players money which could be used to buy / trade goods and to be able to build complex structures etc.


Yeah lol.
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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Janssen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:16 pm

Hellkeeper wrote:Oh wow, I'm sorry to say, but that sounds like an absolutely atrocious idea, like "how to kill Unreal Tournalent 101", it's like the complete anihilation of anything Unreal Tournament, which is based on arena shooting with a given number of players to achieve a score. This is basically World Of Warcraft with UT theme and gimmicks tacked on hsatily at the end, and I don't think anyone would want this.
UT is UT and you have UT.

And i don't think that releasing a new UT with updated graphics would actually work. You'd need gameplay changes, new weapons maybe, etc. and it would NOT be UT.

So i do believe that people looking for a new UT... are actually looking for something other than UT.

And i do believe that the only way to preserve that it really is, is in my vision statement because note that the game dynamics, the weapons, etc. do NOT change in what i mention. Mine is the only true idea where the essence of UT continues to evolve.

You will continue to try to revolutionize UT - and fail, i will continue to say that i am about evolving UT.

Also... the MMORPG would be monster-hunt based, meaning that it would be like world of warcraft in the sense that people would level against monsters (à la monster hunt except in an open environment).

To sum up: Your ideas = atrocious, mine = good.

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Hellkeeper » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:59 pm

You can make a new UT without making it a completely different game. Like it or not, UT200' was a huge chaage in UT, yet not so radical that you couldn't recognize the original UT underneath its new gears. Your idea might be very good in itself (I honestly have no experience with MMOFPS, so I won't judge it on this point), but as a UT game, it's so radical it could be anything with the Unreal trademark on it. Think of Gears of War: Epic knew they had something which would sell and would work, but they didn't call it UT, because it was just very, very different.

And with these basics aside, I remind you what UT is at its core: an arena shooter with fast gameplay, based on competitive scoring in multiplayer. Adding a pve experience to this just doesn't work, it's pretty much the reason why Unreal and UT are separate games.

If you really want to see UT with an evolution, you don't need a revolution. Again, look at the UT/UT2 transition. Sure it was not perfect, sure plenty of people got made, but is was still UT and it was still great games. You don't need to do something that over the top to change UT. I'm not trying to revolutionize the game, I'm fairly happy with what I have, but if I were, you wouldn't see me asking for Role-playing and Real-time strategy aspects. In my fast-arena-fps.

As for your last comment about how people with no good vision bla bla, there have been tons of WOW clones with unique "visions" which all failed miserably, there has been many, and I have seen a good deal of shitty games with no vision become best sellers. So there.

To conclude: no one is stopping you, do as you please, and recognize that 1) manpower is never provided with people with a vision, you have to provide more than a great idea to do anything, 2) if your idea is so awesome and doesn't get attention from the powers that be, maybe it's not that good to begin with. I stand by my original comment: as an Unreal Tournament game, it would complete collapse of the series.
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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Janssen » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:02 am

Hellkeeper wrote:And with these basics aside, I remind you what UT is at its core: an arena shooter with fast gameplay, based on competitive scoring in multiplayer. Adding a pve experience to this just doesn't work, it's pretty much the reason why Unreal and UT are separate games.
No, it is NOT what it is at it's core. That's just a format and there are plenty of such formats around.

What makes it different is the skins, the feeling, and the game dynamics. THAT is what must be preserved and that is exactly what people like you are flushing to make a "new UT" that is exactly the opposite.

As for PVE, there is already the monster hunt mutator that is excellent. And as far as arenas go, some could be implemented in the game just like in world of warcraft (a lot of PVP happens there, and they play for rewards).
Hellkeeper wrote:As for your last comment about how people with no good vision bla bla, there have been tons of WOW clones with unique "visions" which all failed miserably,
Because they're all awful and their vision was wrong or i would be playing them. They don't have the right game dynamics.

---edit by UnrealGecko---

* And again, about manpower, i would add that this manpower that listens to people that do not know what UT is really about are being FOOLED into developing games that in fact do not carry what UT is about into them. Junk games. On and on.

People with bad vision statements might win popularity contests and get the developers, but in the end they are just frauds.

---edit by UnrealGecko---

hardly avoidable because of the evolution of the gaming market. The mainstream wants crud and if you want to be successful in today's market, you can deliver crud and people will buy. That is why the game studios are now extensions of hollywood studios making the same kind of hollywood crud (example: Kung-fu panda expansion pack in world of warcraft).

I'm certainly not proposing a game that will be a best-seller. What i am proposing is a game that is a continuation of old successful games that appealed to a selective public with good taste (ie Diablo 2). Today, it seems like a niche market. We might not even be that many playing the game i propose.

But it is not about ratings but simply filling a void in the gaming world that currently exists for non-mainstream "quality" gamers.

A game for me to play.

That's all.

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by JackGriffin » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:36 am

I just can't tell if he's trolling.
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by UT99.org » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:15 am

billybill wrote:This is really funny. And please don't.

Keep BT for BT, MH for MH, CTF for CTF and the list goes on

If you really wanted to do something like this I'd urge you to just use existing maps and run servers for each gametype, you could do something with the stats. I don't think I want to see maps with combined elements. You could explore the idea of a main portal map where the portal destinations are other servers, they used to be all the rage to have, now nobody uses them. Probably because they are stupid, but they could actually work for your idea

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by JackGriffin » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:29 am

Portal maps sound like a good idea and perhaps back in the day of real player numbers they could work. It was my experience though that no one uses them. For instance I made a DM server that ran a specially scripted monsterhunt demo. You could run around the map (a space station) and kill some monsters while using the MH hud and radar I'd made but it all still ran under the DM gametype. There was visual and audio explaining what was going on and if you liked it there was teleporters that led you to Killerbee's and Unreal Mayhem's MH servers (as well as the one I was running too). I spent a lot of time on that trying to get DM players to just take a look at MH but the end result was that it got a couple of people to teleport to the other servers but they didn't stay. I tend to think that they did it by mistake because the teleporters opened up in a triggered sequence and the logical thing was to just keep going.

As for the original discussion, the guys developing the game are building it as a deathmatch shooter with full expectations that it will be heavily modded. It would be in everyone's interests if we facilitate a proper foundation and sort out all the subtle stuff that made UT great but hurt 2k4. Often it's a fine line between 'nailed it' and 'swing-and-a-miss'. I'd much rather have a great foundational base to mod how I want than a game fully done that I may or may not like and may or may not be popular. Think Minecraft on this: simple, solid gameplay that the players/modders will be all too happy to make each their own.
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by UnrealGGecko » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:12 am

Welll.... There are HD remakes and whatnot.

Also, no Double and Triple posts in this forum please.

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by _naruto_999 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:35 am

UT made in a massive open world where players go from one location to another for matchmaking doesn't work, it's like combining UT and Second Life in one. For every match the server would open a game instance to put players in a closed space to not disturb everyone else that is not playing that match.

The only way to make it is either MMORPG in first person or MMORPG with RTS mixed. But then, that's not unreal tournament. The whole concept of arena shooters is to have a server and clients that connect and everybody loads the same map and play the same gametype at the same time. To give an example: suppose a CTF game with 300 players in a map large enough for 300 players. Nobody would run from one flag to another all alone while taking around 15 minutes to cross the entire map. Add vehicles, now you would have some players going for the flag and hundreads of players playing DM because, while 10 players are near the flag, 100 of others are far away from it. Add control points, player classes and turn that CTF map for 300 players in a battlefield with RTS tactics. At this point it's not arena shooter anymore, it's... Battlefield maybe?
Last edited by _naruto_999 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by JackGriffin » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:41 am

Gecko, are you aware you have an extra G in your sig plate? It's killing my inner grammar-nazi.....
So long, and thanks for all the fish

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by UnrealGGecko » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:45 am

Yes I'm aware, tough to explain why though :lol2:. And no it ain't a grammar error.

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Re: Vision statement for a new Unreal Tournament

Post by Dr.Flay » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:52 am

Hmmm.... :noidea
Open Tournament may be a claimed successor to UT, but that was before a new UT became a reality.
No Epic content is allowed to be used in Open Tournament. It is all a complete new thing made by independent developers.

The direction Open Tournament takes will be decided by the developers in that community.
Obviously there will be a crossover of interest, but expect it to be completely different to the real UT4.
If you wish to have some input as to the future of Unreal Tournament, then I suggest you join the Epic site where they are taking submissions of ideas, and even prepared to pay for them.
https://forums.unrealtournament.com

Among the many new things I would like in UT;
I would like to see many more aspects in UT that would join game modes in a more fluid way, and a transparent map/server/portal system that is part of the game, like the waiting room in Unreal, but with screens I can interact with, as an alternative to standard menus.

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