THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

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memsys
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by memsys » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:02 am

How is the compatibility on a standard UT goty install (that means no new drivers)?

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Dr.Flay
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by Dr.Flay » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:35 pm

A real 2 disc GOTY comes with S3TC textures, you only have to enable it in the renderer config.

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memsys
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by memsys » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:56 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:you only have to enable it in the renderer config.
I don't think most people have that enabled. Also what happens when you have a custom compressed texture and the setting is not enabled?

TheRoel-R
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by TheRoel-R » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:54 pm

Almost done with my first map, been working on this on and off the last week, however my time for mapping is very limited.
It has been ages since I made a CTF-map (let alone a non-BT map), and imo the CTF maps I made in the past aren't that great,
but I think this may work out.

Currently at 510kB no-brushes, but still need to test it with bots some more (bot-pathing has never been my strongest point).

CTF-512k-CostaDelw00t:
costadelw00t1.png
costadelw00t2.png
costadelw00t3.png
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Higor
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by Higor » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:15 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:Using DDS format or importing as DXT in UEd2.1 or above will allow you to compress any custom texture.
This will save a lot of space.
https://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5956
DDS Only texture = crash any renderer with S3TC disabled.
DDS + P8 texture = more filesize than just P8

Not appliable in a competition where filesize is limited.
ImageImage
Image unreal://23.111.157.138:7777
Image unreal://46.228.199.205:7788

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EvilGrins
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:16 pm

That's kinda cool. You can grab the flag and then swim for your life!
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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TheRoel-R
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by TheRoel-R » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:54 pm

That would work if the water didn't kill you :P

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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by Red_Fist » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:05 pm

TheRoel-R wrote:That would work if the water didn't kill you :P
It better not, if it's just water, you could set the zone damage to a negative number for healing, per second, mess with the numbers amount, would give a slightly more fair advantage since you are forced to swim slow and even the score a bit.
Or I think you can make it to swim faster underwater, I forget which settings.

I don't play CTF but that looks like one spiteful wicked map for it :twisted: . Maybe add a tiny tower(s) on the hill with sniper rifles.
get some elevation on the tower, just getting to those might be worse than trying to grab the flag LoL.

looks nice !
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TheRoel-R
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by TheRoel-R » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:36 pm

I kinda like the water idea, problem is that it would need bot pathing in the water as well, and I am very close tot he 512k limit. I'll think about it.

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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:02 pm

TheRoel-R wrote:That would work if the water didn't kill you :P
Oh, so you're one of those eco-terrorists, eh? Man vs Water, this time it's personal!
Red_Fist wrote:I don't play CTF but that looks like one spiteful wicked map for it :twisted: . Maybe add a tiny tower(s) on the hill with sniper rifles.
I was thinking a redeemer on that little middle part, after you launch off a jump-pad you can nuke the other side and then grab their flag while they're respawning.

Problem with poison water is the bots, being bots, are often going to try to swim for it... which doesn't make for a bot-friendly map.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Red_Fist
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by Red_Fist » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:50 pm

TheRoel-R wrote:I kinda like the water idea, problem is that it would need bot pathing in the water as well, and I am very close tot he 512k limit. I'll think about it.
Hmm yes 512, you could use the liftexit tag idea with a liftcenter in the middle, they will follow it unconditionally (make blue line) and if you did two paths like that it in the water would take 3 more, might work.

Also forget the bots so long as they can still make it around one side. Be much better if humans could use it, much better.
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Dr.Flay
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by Dr.Flay » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:11 am

Yes true S3TC will crash any game that has it disabled.
However the question of what you do or don't have enabled, is a different matter to "Is it included as part of a standard GOTY 2 CD distro".
In which case the answer is yes, S3TC compression, the ability to use it, and supplied textures, are completely standard.
Peoples PCs, intelligence or willingness to look in the options, is not standard, and I don't feel we should pick "lazy" as our base-line.

If users don't change their settings they never see the standard "detail" textures or reflective surfaces, so do we say you are not allowed to use any multi-textures and mirrors or shiny surfaces ?

This competition is not about holding people back, but about experimenting with optimisation, and compressed textures are part of that tool set.
Higor has pointed out the correct way to embed a compressed texture, is to include the standard one so it works for everyone on all cards with all renderers, but this is no good to us.
If it is an external UTX file, you have the luxury of optional packages (this is why these maps look so stunning with the High End ST3C replacements :shock: ).

I vote that we don't penalise people if they have to use it, but it should be discouraged.

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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by papercoffee » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:01 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:Peoples PCs, intelligence or willingness to look in the options, is not standard, and I don't feel we should pick "lazy" as our base-line.
I'm not "lazy" ...just because I use only one UT install for mapping and gaming.

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Hellkeeper
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by Hellkeeper » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:08 pm

Dr.Flay wrote:This competition is not about holding people back, but about experimenting with optimisation.
I like to think it was about forcing people to make absolutely perfect layouts because they can't make their map seem better through eye-candy :wink:

I usually build average maps completely saturated with unneeded decoration so it balances out. This contest forced me, with Qesh, to really think about the layout for once. :)
Not to mention I experimented with a theme and a gametype I had never tried. All in all, 512k of learning!
Last edited by Hellkeeper on Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE 512kb MAPPING CONTEST

Post by JackGriffin » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:08 pm

Innovation is great but running a contest like this is by it's nature designed to bring people in that may not be UT players, or older ones long away. If they download the pack and the first map they play crashes they will just discard the whole thing. Any submitted map should run on a GOTY vanilla install without adding anything or changing any settings.
So long, and thanks for all the fish