The Terrain Mapping Contest

Tutorials and discussions about Mapping - Introduce your own ones!
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UnrealGGecko
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by UnrealGGecko » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:59 pm

Mind removing that umx file for your next map version? I understand Sektors thoughts regarding Swankys map where he used an over 60MB texture package where he made great use of that, but that song is not worth 60MB (I liked the previous song choice though lol).

Good of you to change the snow, but now the it has black borders around it for me :/ Fix please!

I like that you added an extra path to get inside now, though you should make that tunnel a bit better than just a tube :P

The teleporter part is unfair, bots like insta-killing me there. Speaking of bots, the pathing needs a rework, I'm afraid.

I might suggest instead of that messy blocky "terrain" to make a really minor slope (hard to explain this) for the whole outside area... then add a a nicely vertexed boulder there. (might need a few attempts to make it look decent). TBH my terrain skills are just as bad as yours right now lol, so maybe someone else has a better idea with that part. Also there is now an invisible hole where that new small hole is. Lastly, now there's a little less then 25% terrain, sorry.

I might suggest you looking at AS-Golgotha. Terrain there, while basic, doesn't look too ugly.


Again, take your time, you still have a LOT of time to improve... I wish you good luck kiddo ;)




phew... Finally done writing this on my phone... ARRRRGH!

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EvilGrins
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:34 pm

Contest isn't done until December 22nd, nobody who's entering anything should feel a need to rush...
Image
...it's not even November 22nd yet.
http://unreal-games.livejournal.com/
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medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins :mrgreen:
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Gustavo6046
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:03 pm

Ugh, I might take a rest for now. I am not taking a rush, it's my normal mapping time! (believe, if it's that surprising) I will play some game online... maybe Zandronum (just another Doom sourceport (JADS))...

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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by papercoffee » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:59 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:I am not taking a rush, it's my normal mapping time!
And that's the problem ...keep it slower and think more about your map layout. You can't put together a decent map in just a few hours ...if you are not a pro-mapper.

We had once our 48 hours speed mapping contest ... only a handful of mapper could finish their maps in time and produced very good maps.

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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Higor » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:16 am

I never finished this monster, but sure as hell using it as entry would be cheating lmao viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4159.
I'm so slow at mapping I can't get past the initial quarter of the map without giving up or putting it on the freezer.

SniperValley on the other side...
ImageImage
Image unreal://23.111.157.138:7777
Image unreal://46.228.199.205:7788

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Dr.Flay
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Dr.Flay » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:21 am

UE1 is an old engine with some annoying quirks, and serious limitations.
You do have an advantage that almost all Unreal tutorials are valid for UT, so there is a huge mixture of help available.
The OldUnreal downloads section has some very useful guides for all levels of ability

You don't need a MIDI keyboard or hardware to turn a MIDI file into a Tracker module.
Windows already has a basic MIDI sample set. If you load a MIDI file into OpenMPT and press play, you will hear it played with those basic samples.
The MIDI sample sets are also known as SoundFonts" and there are originals available from sound card makers like Creative Labs http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArti ... x?sid=5184
or 3rd party projects like "Arachno SoundFont" http://www.arachnosoft.com/main/soundfont.php

If you want to convert a regular audio file into a fake tracker file, you need to understand the limitations.
Tracker files are made from lots of small samples triggered in sequence. Each trigger has to be set for speed, pitch and duration (exactly the same as MIDI).
It was never designed for playing 1 long sample. There are 2 ways to deal with it. I cover 1 in my tutorial.

Because WAV data is not compressed, we need to optimise the audio file first.
Everything gets halved. First turn it into a single channel mono soample, then reduce quality to 22050 Hz, then reduce to 8-bit.
Now the size is similar to a big MP3.
This can turn many pieces of music into a noisy mess, so you should use good quality software to do it.
Read my tutorial all the way to the end, and you will be able to use whatever software you like.
https://yourunreal.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... mx-format/

However if you want to make things easier, use the new Beta audio renderers from OldUnreal and use OGG, MP3 or FLAC among others.

You will have to include the renderer (or a link to the renderer) in the finished package.
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/ ... oard=Sound


You have discovered the built-in path spamming feature it seems. I will cover a few things so you understand.
As tempting as it is, it rarely produces good pathing.
Only keep a personal copy for playing and testing. Add the word "Spam" to the file name. never show anyone or tell anyone :wink:

If a map is more "castles and corridors" and has good item placement it can be more sensible, but you will find it always dumps multiple nodes on the same spot, as well as too close together.
Every single extra node will make the map bigger and slower.
Even though they are invisible in game, the engine lags when you view an area with lots of nodes. This is why looking down from a high place can lag in outdoor maps.
The node spammer will only try to link player starts and inventory, that is why some areas will be empty.
Any bots that get knocked out of the pathed area cannot navigate back, but will wander around.
Nodes are "Line of Sight" so must have a clear view of each other, or they do not connect even if they are close together.
Nodes can have problems linking across BSP cuts and errors.
Always enable the path view so you can see which paths have not built. Right-click in the grey space above the view port, go to "View" and select "Show Paths".
The lines you see, are how many choices the bot has to think of every time it navigates. Try not to give them more than they need.

Damn, they still have not fixed the database problem at the BUF Wiki, but here is a pathing tool you may want to try
http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:PathLogic
Instructions - http://wayback.archive.org/web/20060714 ... hlogic.htm
PathLogic103.zip
I have contemplated streaming myself while doing boring tasks like pathing, as it is very over-looked and does not make interesting youtube videos.
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Hellkeeper
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Hellkeeper » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:27 pm

editor Dave wrote:I do think HellKeeper's tone was a bit exaggerated, but that's him I guess. :lol:
Yes, I went a bit overboard, I'm sorry.

Gustavo: your new release is slightly improved, that's something. There are still a number of creeping problems but at least you are showing some progress. Your lighting is much better than your previous try, for instance. So here's some calmly-written, honest criticism with no hostility this time.

The main things you have to fix, in this map and in your mapping in general, to have a solid foundation on which to build, are:

- First, geometry. You have snapped most of your brushes to the grid, that's a good start. Still, you keep using brushes which are freely rotated, and that's a problem (I'm talking about things like your snowy hills in the outside part). If you want to make a prism, the best thing is to use the brush clipping tool and simply cut a cube into a triangle, then use vertex editing to have the hill exactly as you want. If you do it sensibly, you will also easily keep every vertex on the grid. Likewise, rotating brushes which are way to large results in unplanned problems : you have two holes in the ground of your outside terrain. One leads to a passage the other is just a hole, but the brush is so large it makes a cut inside the adjacent wall, probably something you would like to fix.

- Your snow. It's almost impossible to make good snow in UT, and you did an acceptable job at it, but all those sheets should probably set as semi-solids or non-solids. There are technical reasons behind this, but I don't want to confuse you with deep investigations in how the engine computes brushes.

- Then your pathing. There are places in your map where pathnodes are high above the ground or packed very close to each others, not good. This can be seen in the outside part of your map and under the walkway inside, among others.

- Finally, you have a style problem: you use Nali lanterns in your tunnel but the map seems to be some kind of weird bunker, so modern, these don't go well together. And most of all, your map has no architecture: it's made of large excavated brushes with a few textures, but no pillars, no trims, no apparent life, this is something you should try and study because this is the kind of thing which makes a map more interesting to look at. It also provides things like cover and such.

There are many many other things to fix and change, but I won't drop everything on your head at once. These are the main and urgent problems you have to fix, or learn how to fix.

Good luck.
You must construct additional pylons.

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Gustavo6046
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:34 pm

There are too many snow planes to put into Semisolid. But I fixeda lot of problems in the map: https://mega.nz/#!gFxkAJxA!ty97V-WWdHHM ... evxBaJyZSo

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FraGnBraG
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by FraGnBraG » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:06 am

Dr.Flay wrote: ... You don't need a MIDI keyboard or hardware to turn a MIDI file into a Tracker module.... If you load a MIDI file into OpenMPT and press play, you will hear it played with those basic samples...
No you don't, but I would recommend against doing this "practice" unless you understand very well the differences in the way tempo and events are handle in both MID software and ModPlug.
If the MID is very short and simple (they very often are NOT short or simple) then go ahead and try an import. You will likely find the rows and "patterns" are all mismatched with the music so you have to monkey a lot with adjusting the pattern layout to make it make sense in terms of song structure. No really hard, just a LOT of boring cut and paste. There are of course some "tools" that can help you with mapping the MIDI music into tracker rows based on tempo and speed values. These are modified in the MID before import. Not really a great process in any event (and IMO) not really worth it... :P
Dr.Flay wrote:... SoundFonts ... Creative Labs ... Arachno SoundFont...


Geez Flay, our brain waves must somehow match - I use the above and highly recommend Arachno, although, remember when you load the MIDI in MPT as a sample it is effectively no longer MIDI and will suffer from strectching artifacts just as any other sample. Unfortunately, it's all you can do in a IT/S3M/XM/UMX. Galaxy won't process MIDI (or VSTs). Too bad, I absolutely love VST plugins, oh well. You could record your target MIDI instruments at a few different notes (using VMPK as the "player") then combine them in a MPT instrument. You could also put a whole drum kit into one instrument - very useful.
Dr.Flay wrote:... If you want to convert a regular audio file into a fake tracker file, you need to understand the limitations. Tracker files are made from lots of small samples triggered in sequence. Each trigger has to be set for speed, pitch and duration (exactly the same as MIDI). It was never designed for playing 1 long sample. There are 2 ways to deal with it. I cover 1 in my tutorial. ...
I discourage this... it usually sound like crap whatever you do (and it just encourages IP theft). There are so many free tracker modules out there, just go look. There's also plenty of not often used UMX already in the UT world...

Check my sig ... my track "Wake up call" is done using Open ModPlug as the base sequencer, fed with looped samples, MIDI, a few sound bytes, my Yamaha through ASIO and guitar recorded through an ME25 into SONAR - The sooner you start with Modplug the sooner you'll see a new world... more fun than french fries!!!

Cheers
-=FraGnBraG Level Design=- ***UPDATED! even works on your phone!***

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Gustavo6046
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:46 pm

But I have nothing, excpet a computer! I compose musics off the bat using stuff like Anvil Studio virtual piano and... how to make a decent UT music in OpenMPT with a keyboard?
BTW did you checked the latest version?
EDIT: My music may look Doom-ish....

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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Gustavo6046 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:08 am

Very cool of a map! I wonder how I could place tree prefabs in my level terrain, either...
Also if it's not an contest entry, then it should be moved.

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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by papercoffee » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:31 am

Gustavo6046 wrote:Very cool of a map! I wonder how I could place tree prefabs in my level terrain, either...
Those prefabs are actually made in the 2D editor of UEd.

I have decided to remake this map ...it's small but more important is "I can make it".
Sooo ...now it's somehow relevant. I can use Creavions great nature pack.

But Gustavo is right, can a moderator please cut this post out and make an own thread out of it?
Title can be [pre-alpha] DM-TmC-JungleWarfare.
Thanks in advance.

EDIT--------------------------
I have started to recreate the map layout :mrgreen:
I'm not good in other 3D programs ...So I use the terrain brush in UEd for simple layout.
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Dr.Flay
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Dr.Flay » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:10 am

Topic split as requested

Delacroix has just reminded me of another useful terrain tool "UnrealPolyEd"
http://home.in.tum.de/~geisinge/sw/unre ... s/Main.htm

There is a thread at OldUnreal where someone has asked for recommended terrain tools. You may want to keep an eye on it.
http://www.oldunreal.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/ ... 1447708447

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Renegade
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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Renegade » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:45 am

Here's another Terrain generator:
http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?p=8

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Re: The Terrain Mapping Contest

Post by Swanky » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:40 am