Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

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Barbie
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Re: Actors with duplicate names

Post by Barbie » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:57 pm

sektor2111 wrote:In this topic is posted some duplicate Brush which is more over the total number of brushes used.
IMO gaps in numbering are not an indicator for a broken map, but a proof that the mapper has deleted things while mapping.
How do I come to that statement?
It is a common problem to find an unused number (or name or whatever - lets call it "ID") in a list. I know two solutions:
1) Begin at 0 and increase that value as long as any list item has this ID. Advantage: no gaps in numbering. Disadvantage: poor performance (P(n) ~ n).
2) Store the maximum number and store and return the successor. Advantage: Faaast (P(n)=const). Disadvantage: there may be gaps in numbering.
UnrealEd seems to use a combination of both: While adding and deleting Objects method (2) is used, but the MaxID is stored in memory only. If the map is saved, closed and opened again, (1) is used with the exception that it starts at MaxID (what is 0 just after opened a map).

Proof: on adding and deleting objects in a new map you will notice that the IDs always increase, no gaps are filled. If you open an existing map and add objects, the gaps are filled.
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Re: Actors with duplicate names

Post by Red_Fist » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:57 pm

How could it get the duplicate actors though, in either case. I still think the map had some import, or a conversion from another game, or a different Ued.

But as for counting wise, what do you surmise on how to re-create the duplicate actor problem. ?

I hope you are fixing those add brushes poking through the subtracts. Cuz those zones ,like travel through the whole map. I had this problem before when the BSP is open.

Those sheets are too big, the smaller ones or that water hallway one, has got to go LoL

Pathing the map, if you do, so at least the whole thing is connected, use nodes, just enough, but use the liftexit-center-liftexit combo to force paths with the liftexit tags. Set the ZDifferentialAdd, to drop down, but set it to the distance they jump down. Then set the ExtraCost to zero.

It shouldn't take too much for a rudimentary path from start to the MonsterEnd.


Oh, last post you did. I must have messed it up, but still shows an underlying problem for the BSP, Could be since I never got rid of dup the brushes, and pasted, it brought holes in even though the dup was gone. That must be it.
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Re: Actors with duplicate names

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:36 am

Red_Fist wrote:Pathing the map, if you do, so at least the whole thing is connected, use nodes, just enough, but use the liftexit-center-liftexit combo to force paths with the liftexit tags. Set the ZDifferentialAdd, to drop down, but set it to the distance they jump down. Then set the ExtraCost to zero.
Btw, because you said about pathing in small zones, exist another solution which I was using in a couple of Levels and it's perfect even for ramps and the rest of badies.
Simply select Pathnode from Editor create a New class, name it How you want, hit compile. Now go to "defaultproperties" and change cylinder like 40 Height and 5-10 Radius. Even default display might be 0.6-0.7 for more logic. Change it bMovable=false, change ExtraCost at 5 or small added value. Now your Nodes will drive Bot pawn where you won't see it using default PathNode, also no more skating at ramps.
You will ask about InventorySpots created which are somehow "fat" ? Before a clean rebuild order something to last (light, deco, anything) purge garbage save map and restart Editor, reload map. Now I have a txt-file which I will call before command <paths define>.
That TXT is as follows:

Code: Select all

set InventorySpot bHiddenEd False
set InventorySpot bMovable False
set InventorySpot ExtraCost 10
Set InventorySpot CollisionRadius 5.000000
Set InventorySpot NetUpdateFrequency 10.000000
named by example Inve. Then command from Editor will be <exec Inve>, after that input <paths define>. Now you can save it and see if paths are functional yourself without Bots. Small tunnels, ropes nearby walls, all kind of holes can be traveled like this with 0 troubles, I have tested this way and that's why I intend to try more cubes even impossible to be pathed with default stuff because this job is doable without changing any Engine and no major skill is required. When you order things new InventorySpot-s are created from 0 to whatever discarding old ReachSpecs loaded and decreasing map size with a couple of data.

Above map also Needs an End because it doesn't have one, like I already said.

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Re: Actors with duplicate names

Post by Barbie » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:00 pm

A reasonable Beta1-Fix of MH-Ziki is available now. [url=unreal://81.169.240.101:7777]Play it online[/url] or download it here (4 MB) for a while. Please don't spread it into the world, it's not final (see ToDo-section).

The map is still not perfect, but at least playable and the puzzles are solvable without loosing patience (I hope). Estimated time amount until here: ~30h (including my mapping astray ways).
Some things are still to do:
  • test game flow
  • test if Zoning and location strings are correct
  • add more monsters
  • add health and ammo
  • Drawbridge cable connections look ugly, but I suck in vertex editing...
  • bended pipe pieces at Lave River have holes in surfaces
I even would have done bot pathing if I knew how to do that (of course I can set PathNodes, but idk how to tell bots to do tasks in a certain order. Maybe someone wants to write a lottle HowTo? *squins to sektor2111* :) ).
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:43 pm

Indeed there is no valid thread for MH's Bot support basics, in fact is not a harder job, only if map is not rammed. Engine needs to detect pawn's physics required and then will do nothing - this is a tech thing so we can slow down amazing science because we need simple setup. One of simple setup needs is at least 9 PlayerStarts (can be added later post Bot Pathing).

There are 2 (or 3 ways) to do Bot Support for MH game-type (also that MH if it's an attached one must have all code ported else won't work).

Factor 1 is a Keypoint named MonsterWayPoint right in pink color. This keypoint is the factor guiding Bot to whatever Lever/Button/Door. These Keypoints are set with an unique Value called Position. It starts with Position 1, then 2 then ect. Letting all of them in default won't work more than first one added. Position 1 and then hold/break if 2 doesn't exist.
Examples: MH-Liandri-Invasion, Arden+fix1, Demons][, Templar, etc. All MonsterWaypoints have nearby a navigable network completely linked from start to end - Network will be as in default games. After visiting all Positions "1" to let's say "12", Next goal is MonsterEnd, and a reachable one placed with default Editor placement on the ground easily toucheable by Bot while is racing.

Factors - Configure map in that way to not allow touching Position 2 before Position 1 by no one, or default MH will do a break, or Position 4 before 2 or 3 - else nasty things will occur, no more attack. You can protect touching by covering with a trigger disabling touch for all points in range in order to prevent evilized problems. MH's navigation is a bit more sensitive than in CTF or others due to controller load. Feel free to speed up routines and you'll notice better results (I could figure that).

In so called v504 MonsterWayPoint is more wrapped and Bot code is based on combat rather that running and gunning as retard. Pickups are a factor in making things ugly or nice - Bot stucked in multiple pickups having less than 50 UU between each-other - respawntime tuned is much recommended than a mountain of trash in place. MH2 versions come with new triggers and keypoints due to code calls and they can be much better wrapped + using a safe PathNode as a reference in case of bad placement.

In MH-ziki we need a couple of cheap hacks in order to make Bot to go on top of that building for triggering first door. BlockedPath works in MH in case of needs. Then they have to go in tower. We need to set those as OnceOnly else we won't see good things with those doors - it's just MH not chess. bOneWayPath also works (presuming we know these basics). I figured what I need but I have quit due to BSP troubles found later.
Default MH controller doesn't convince a Bot to shoot a target but a custom thing might do additional intelligence in hunting. Then I think more things are doable - including locking a path which is not longer needed to avoid crawling useless.

You might draw 4 cubes as a map and I'll show some example of "How To". Then we can slap some Navigation into Ziki.

Edit:
MonsterEnd is small and Hidden. Have you tried a default MH session ?

Edit2:
Pathing... I was expecting troubles, and there are troubles. While ground has direct link with the void (BSP problems) physics required to travel there might lead in broken Network. I forced links in thwse points but I won't bet that Bot won't jump over that hole (and perhaps will fall in Lava). I'll figure all issues when things are gonna be done.
[attachment=0]0_TinyTroubles.PNG[/attachment]


Edit 3: Ooopsy. I figured some mover puzzle which will need some custom stuff for that. I think I'm not gonna waste weeks there, perhaps I'll skip Bot section there. Look, these sort of "smarty-useless" ways no one hunter is able to manage without checking Level's stuff with Editor - which is cheating like, is simply for more advanced player with too much free time to waste in Sp Levels looking in all corners (and then they will figure bugs). There are more movers in map than monsters. :loool:.
I did two towers and I'm feel bored by these Movers set for SP. Losing start will add another couple of seconds to wait and wait and wait. Let's play chess then, this is not too much a shooter like. The problem for Bot is also clear, they won't cover human if those areas are configured like that being unable to manage Level without "news".
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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:53 am

Continuing (or editing after 24H).
I'm wonder in moments who was so smarty for such a "portation" because these settings remember me by some Levels where a guy has opened a door an two others were closing them back purposedly to make a mess - TrigerToggle, LOL. We cannot speak about Bot problems in areas as we can speak about mad people after all - Bot can be cool with some path-togglers (deny/accept). I'm guessing TriggerToggle is not MH friendly, not when we have "ReturnWhenEncroach" - imagine some 8-12 players crawling in a non-team play session + Antiboost + No Collision. Camper in front of a door supposed to open in player's direction. Nobody will ever open that. Hey, we need a Watch-Dog admin in here...

And quiting factor (after wasting some hours for Pathing). Even human has a challenge at that PIPE, one of corners has now (or had) a nasty BSP invisible hill challenging your jumping skill. Well... the rest of setup for porting to MH looks like a No Go. Perhaps those PIPE corners needs to be semisolid or heck knows what else they need...

I think I'll move to fix other Levels more cute and smaller...

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by Barbie » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:42 pm

First of all thanks for the bot support hints for MH. I have already tried these MonsterWayPoints in my map "MH-AutoRIP(SB)" but without reasonable result.
more movers in map than monsters
Yep, filling with more monsters is my last to-do-item, because on testing buttons, movers, etc. I do that with running the map and then Monsters only hinder my movement.
mover puzzle
I was thinking how to solve that with bots, too - probably it will take me weeks to figure that out. (For the readers who don't know that puzzle: you have to get into a cube-like lift at the 1st floor, activate it by a button and leave the lift at its end position on 2nd floor. The lift goes down to 1st floor automatically after StayOpenTime. On 2nd floor there is a button for activating the lift, too. You have to jump on a brace in the lift shaft, walk to the button and press it. Then the lift will come up and you have to jump on its roof to get to 3rd floor. <- now tell a bot to do that :lol2: )
Even for human players it is not obviously what to to there; that's why I added a trigger with a hint message on 2nd floor.
In general the instructions what to do were rare in the original map and I tried to overcome that by adding global messages on every mile stone achieved.
a guy has opened a door an[d] two others were closing them back purposedly to make a mess
Therefore I added a global message every time a door gets locked or unlocked, but while recently playing this map online with players who don't know the map I noticed that thy don't understand these lock/unlock mechanism despite the global messages. You are right - I probably should change these Unlock/Lock-Triggers to TriggerOnlyOnce.
MonsterEnd is small and Hidden
Are you sure? I just checked this: MonsterEnd0.bHidden is set to FALSE in MH-Ziki+SBFixBeta1.
Perhaps those PIPE corners needs to be semisolid or heck knows what else they need...
I mentioned that in the To-Do-List: "bended pipe pieces at Lave River have holes in surfaces". I created all pipe pieces with the 2D editor and I don't know why there are BSP holes or whatever that is. I thought of replacing the pipe by a catwalk.

Finally and all in all my convincement gets strengthen that bot support is often not worth the work for it if it consumes more than - lets say 10% - of overall mapping time. I know none server that runs MH with bots and know only one Player who plays maps offline with bots (was it Papercoffee?).
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by FXANBSS » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:09 pm

About the duplicate names is simple to fix, select the actor with same name than the other actor, duplicate it, delete the old one, you have actors without same names, though you have blank spaces between the names sometimes but that is not a problem.

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by sektor2111 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:25 pm

Barbie wrote:Finally and all in all my convincement gets strengthen that bot support is often not worth the work for it if it consumes more than - lets say 10% - of overall mapping time. I know none server that runs MH with bots and know only one Player who plays maps offline with bots (was it Papercoffee?).
It's doable I asure you that. I even made for home usage a Pathing session in AkemiChan if youn know that map, and YES they can help player and even end map by themselves if player is wasting time at BT section. I have my "toys" for Bot no worries but is time consuming for BAD zones which even human can see troubles. That Lift can be set different to avoid evil player. TrigerOpenTimed - End of story + Bot_Runner, Bot_Pauser, Bot_Jumper, ect. In your free time see map Citadelfix2 (not sure how much is fixed) and tell that Bot Support is not doable there. I'll send you later some thing to prove the revesal of toughts. Did I mention the number of forum viewers at section FerBotz ? Section it's very visited if you did not see this yet.
Barbie wrote:I know none server that runs MH with bots and know only one Player who plays maps offline with bots (was it Papercoffee?).
Bad for you, go at HOF MH on port 8888 and pick some R15 map or whatever known with Bot support.
At least for MonsterWayPoint it won't work in incomplete rewritten MH2 or MH3 types - If you are adding new MonsterEnd trigger but not Replacement for MonsterWayPoint nothing will ever work, I guess you don't have that so it won't work + Default Touch Accessed Nones. So to speak ADD bot support into your MH before to see it functional in Level. Implement testing support and check paths directly - this chapter for me was facinating. In Ziki they were reaching at maze-puzzle zone. There I'm feel too lazy but some day (or some night :noidea ) I'll do something cute. There is not an impossible action to do, I want it funny - no, I lie, very funny + speech support, teaching player "How to" - help for newbies so to speak, LOL.
Even I'm firing randomly a MH server but I keep it less seen - some turds haters were bullshiting and I'm getting bored of them, none of them was able to bring a cute thing but all of them were talking craps: Skins, Antiboost, Nexgens, bla bla Scoring and all toillete stuff out of MH's purpose. Also I'm not hosting any empty cube, BTW all the time is fun in MBot's company.

Ziki - Pipes perhaps works different if corners are semisolid (Only corners ? Or just pipes ? Or a simple square rope without a crapton of polys ?).
Last edited by sektor2111 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by SC]-[WARTZ_{HoF} » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:34 am

Barbie wrote: I know none server that runs MH with bots and know only one Player who plays maps offline with bots (was it Papercoffee?).
Like sektor2111 said, HoF 8888 runs Mbots. Its the first game server in my signature.
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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by papercoffee » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:24 am

Barbie wrote:I know none server that runs MH with bots and know only one Player who plays maps offline with bots (was it Papercoffee?).
I don't play MH offline ...everything else yes. Especially BurgerCTF in the last time.
But I think you mixed me up with EvilGrins. ;)

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by Barbie » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:14 am

After some weeks of fixing and additional weeks of testing online I decided that the fixed map is ready for public now. I've updated my first post with the hint where to download.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by Barbie » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Baah, I wanted to pimp that nice looking CTF map CTF-UnderDark to MH and discovered that it has also hundreds of duplicate Actors (Brushes, Lights and SkyZoneInfo here). Because deleting only one of the two duplicates in the editor is not possible (both Actors are deleted when saving the map), here a method to solve this:
1a) Load the map in the Editor and export it to a T3D file.
1b) Find out the duplicate Actors, either by that simple *nix shell command mentioned above in this thread or writing an own small script to list duplicates.
2) Take a text editor and delete one of the duplicates in that T3D file. I noticed that only brush duplicates seem to differ in textual representation: The duplicate has no PolyList - make sure that you delete these Brushes, not the ones with a PolyList. I also noticed that all duplicates seems to be in a row after the "original" Actors, but that's not reliable.
Save the T3D file.
3) Load the map in the Editor and choose "File|New" without saving. This makes sure that all Textures, Sounds and other resources are loaded in the Editor.
4) Finally import the modified T3D file in that new, empty map.

Maybe someone has written or will write a small Perl (or other language) script for this task.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by OjitroC » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:02 pm

Barbie wrote:Baah, I wanted to pimp that nice looking CTF map CTF-UnderDark to MH
Hadn't come across this map before (though there is a DM-Underdark, which is different). It does look good and would make an interesting MH map. Having played it several times now, I find that there is a tendency for bots to jump/fall into the lava and slime.

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Re: Actors with duplicate names (MH-Ziki)

Post by Red_Fist » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:22 pm

Seems all I did was delete one of the dups, in the map editor, even though it STAYS in the editor even though looking like it is not deleted.

(but it is deleted)

after I rebuilt the map and saved, the dup actor was gone.

seems the editor won't show you deleted it. or maybe shows only if you delete both.

even in the spillway map I found dup brushes, and I got rid of them by doing that.
Last edited by Red_Fist on Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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