UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

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sektor2111
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by sektor2111 »

Keep in mind that a dude here was able to get a connection according to his needs for hosting a radio station. He did not find qualified personal but... he is happy with that connection 1 ms ping at 400 miles away. Huh ? That's not ok for a stupid UT server ? Probably is too good - sample of "home" business.
As for the rest of multiple connections, heh, probably a torrent client will never work if you don't have support for multiple connections. As I recall you can tweak TCPIP for other purposes (gaming options included). The rest of security, well, less rights to system and a firewall with known turds listed is probably more safer than an OS where M$ can roam and uninstall "harmful" stuff when they want because they "protect" you ?
As another fact, threats are advancing based on OS's options. An OS with no options is not a ground for such threads. I had a direct sample related to a site which never infected me in Win98SE but it just did it in the newer for that time XP, LOL, because of some DLL missing - yeah - they were pretty idiots for my laughs. You''ll be surprised, but sometimes FALLBACK might be more helpful than supposed. Threat X uses SSE2 SSE3 smarty "news" ? Good, I'm... not using them, will deliver a system stuck and not a corruption as in target purpose or if Kernel doesn't support whatever protocol.
Trust me, the safety on Internet is a myth in any case. I hate XP and I love XP if you know what I mean, but as long as I did set things properly and I have no worries, I won't go different. Some new surveillance devices super duper secured have been hacked using exploits based on updates, it was expensive to get them back so let's forget so called security because is a pointless debate. Security is NONE from that minute since you have plugged Internet cable in many OS-es.
Game Servers were sending e-mails about attacks and outages as well, so what is the deal then ? Who is secured ?
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Lostsoul »

Barbie wrote:You should clear out where the lags come from. Is the VM on a dedicated machine or on the same machine you are connecting as a client? If the latter, the lag reason must be within the configuration of your machine/VM host/VM client. Otherwise also your LAN/WAN switch/router may be involved.
Let some bots play 30 min and join then to see if lags occur.
Hi Barbie, the VM is on a dedicated machine, no client active on the same pc during the game . No antivirus, no useless services. Leaving some bots playing is not a valid test, the problem appears after some clients are connected. Bots doesn't have any lag, it seems.
sektor2111 wrote:Here is good to see if not some useless "power management" is trying to save power. A dude called me once because his movies often went lagged after some time and he was suspecting codecs, problem was OS trying to turn off display while the movie was running. If fist time everything is OK and then it starts to get messy power management might be a factor, or probably I'm wrong and some Internet Bots are roaming around. I have experienced lags in the past at this point at running Web-Services on the same machine if directives are not properly set.
Another thing is that you might need some Network monitoring application to see what does it happen at network. A bad network configured drives shortly in a no connection (bad MTU, etc.) even if was OK at start. It lags more and more until all connections are lost. I have such experience using a mobile device in the past - working as modem.
Hi sektor2111, I didn't tell this before, I forgot, I'm a computer technician and a player :)
I've already blocked any service and the power management is set to "always at top performance". No hibernation, no screen saver, no power control on devices, no anything to limit the performance, also in the host machine. I tested the 100MB NIC (PCnet fast III) and the 10 MB NIC (PCnet-PCI II). IPv6 deactivated. Ah, one thing: another server for Left 4 Dead in the same platform works perfectly. When I check the activities of the VM, all is near the "normal" load, network included.
Qwerty wrote: windows XP = Bad Idea
Virtual box = Bad Idea
ADSL = Bad Idea

solution = Pay for real hosting, or simply run on a real machine with a modern OS with a proper internet connection.

you have way to many variables for failure.
I don't want to pay to play with some friends two or three evenings a week. I've the machine that can support every kind of VM, this is the only game that gives problems. I'm not an enterprise, an ADSL is all I can pay for. I tried also Ubuntu to run the game server, but it's difficult to control...
sektor2111 wrote: [...]One of options is paying for a better connection - here I mean a STABLE one not a "high traffic" one. I have hosted servers at home for years so I know what is about.
Please, you are forgetting an important info: I have lags also in my LAN (100MB) connection. I mean that with only one friend connected through ADSL, we both have lags at certain time. I was playing UT99 in the past with an ISDN connection single channel, 64 Kb, with the delays for this kind of connection. Here, I don't have to have any lags, I think (probably I've made a lot of mistakes in the sintax, plz forgive me).

Edit: Saw two posts right now. Qwerty and sektor2111, the question is not "who has the longer...." Surely you both are a skilled and experienced, but this doesn't help me, I don't understand because a phisical machine can run a UT server w/o problems and a VM cannot. I've tried in the past and a single CPU phisical machine runs correctly.
Last edited by Lostsoul on Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Barbie
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Barbie »

Lostsoul wrote:the problem appears after some clients are connected
Does the problem also occur if the connections come from LAN only? That would exclude your WAN gateway from possibly error sources. (Also a little draft of the network you are using may help delimiting error sources.)
Lostsoul wrote:I tried also Ubuntu to run the game server, but it's difficult to control...
All you need is Midnight Commander if you know what Norton Commander was... ;o)
Just try it, I can give some support.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett
Lostsoul
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Lostsoul »

Barbie wrote:All you need is Midnight Commander if you know what Norton Commander was... ;o)
Just try it, I can give some support.
TY. I'' try this evening. :tu:
Edit. Lost a lot of time installing Ubuntu. But my friend isn't available this evening, so I'll test the new installation with other "clients" another day. But at the moment, UT99 server seems to work like a charm :) Linux new frontier? :satan:
Last edited by Lostsoul on Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sektor2111
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by sektor2111 »

This means that VM is the problem, something is not working as should...
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by RocketJedi »

sektor2111 wrote:Keep in mind that a dude here was able to get a connection according to his needs for hosting a radio station. He did not find qualified personal but... he is happy with that connection 1 ms ping at 400 miles away. Huh ? That's not ok for a stupid UT server ? Probably is too good - sample of "home" business.
As for the rest of multiple connections, heh, probably a torrent client will never work if you don't have support for multiple connections. As I recall you can tweak TCPIP for other purposes (gaming options included). The rest of security, well, less rights to system and a firewall with known turds listed is probably more safer than an OS where M$ can roam and uninstall "harmful" stuff when they want because they "protect" you ?
As another fact, threats are advancing based on OS's options. An OS with no options is not a ground for such threads. I had a direct sample related to a site which never infected me in Win98SE but it just did it in the newer for that time XP, LOL, because of some DLL missing - yeah - they were pretty idiots for my laughs. You''ll be surprised, but sometimes FALLBACK might be more helpful than supposed. Threat X uses SSE2 SSE3 smarty "news" ? Good, I'm... not using them, will deliver a system stuck and not a corruption as in target purpose or if Kernel doesn't support whatever protocol.
Trust me, the safety on Internet is a myth in any case. I hate XP and I love XP if you know what I mean, but as long as I did set things properly and I have no worries, I won't go different. Some new surveillance devices super duper secured have been hacked using exploits based on updates, it was expensive to get them back so let's forget so called security because is a pointless debate. Security is NONE from that minute since you have plugged Internet cable in many OS-es.
Game Servers were sending e-mails about attacks and outages as well, so what is the deal then ? Who is secured ?
I appreciate your input on a fun discussion :) I hear you and I see your point. a lot of vulnerabilities are on new systems because the old ones are patched already or no sense writing code to attack an OS that no one uses. ( except a few ) its just like antivirus everyone swears by one or another but they are all vulnerable.
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by rjmno1 »

I did a install from windows 2000 on virtualbox, this os to old and canot go properly over the internet causing some problem uses.
Well at least you can configure the videocard settings with a maximum of 128 mb.
Now i gonna try windows xp maby this os will work properly.
Not trying that i. will now go for windows 7 on a windows 10 host machine because of the compatebility
It works faster then VMWare and is not so big. :tu:
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sektor2111
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by sektor2111 »

Dude I don't known if you read things generally - conclusion from watching your INI files, seriously.... Windows2000 is known for ping issues at UT, it do needs a patch for that case, maybe you should use G00gle for other clarifications.
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Lostsoul »

sektor2111 wrote:Dude I don't known if you read things generally - conclusion from watching your INI files, seriously.... Windows2000 is known for ping issues at UT, it do needs a patch for that case, maybe you should use G00gle for other clarifications.
sektor2111 is right. Is an old issue with win2000. There is a patch for this.
Well, the last try i've done was recover an old machine, single CPU, 2 GB ram DDR2 and an PATA drive, windows 7 32 bit, same installation, no AV, no useless services etc etc..... The UT99 folder was copied from another machine I tested. Surprise! I got lags exactly as playing on a VM. So, is not WIndows xp or Linux the problem, probably is my modded installation. So, i've downloaded a fresh new UT99 Goty edition isos and I'll try with this machine. Thank you all for keeping this thread live. :)
Edit... damn the verbs are difficult...
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Lostsoul »

Ok, I'm done. "New" Windows XP PC with single CPU and 2 GB ram DDR400, like the first "serious" machine that I had in ancient times. With a fresh UT99 Goty installation, some maps, some textures, nothing other. Map cycle is CTF, Instagib, five little maps like Niven, Face, Epic Boy, Coret. No UT pure, no other mods.
It seems to be running well, but if you want to connect to my "server" LOL I'll be glad to know your impressions. Address: sanlostsoul.no-ip.org:7777 pwd for the game ...."lostsoul" (w/o quotation marks) :D It will be up tomorrow 03/10/2017 from 8:00 pm to 12:00 pm GMT+1 (Italy). thank you all for your support.
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by $carface »

All this drama.

Listen guy - don't run in a VM. UT wasn't designed for one and if anyone understands how VMs work, all the kernels cluster fuck and clash with each other. VMs as an operating system for gameservers are rubbish. VMs are for slicing / clouding standardised things like web servers. You need to run it bare bones if you want good performance. Simple as that.

Another thing to note is, your VM has shared resources. Kernel values defines what is served. The overhead between calculating commits is not worth it.

Remember UT is a single threaded process. Having multi core processor is useless. The most powerful single core processor is the 4790k. In theory, that'd be the best processor to host on. Newer, "stronger" multi core processors will do worse at hosing UT than legacy hardware such as the E3 1270 series.
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Barbie »

$carface wrote:don't run in a VM
I'm running multiple different operation systems and their applications in VMs, the clone template for my UT server, and my public UT server (Linux) is also running in a VM. I've never noticed problems with it.
If the hardware is emulated properly, no software can detect it is running in a VM. There is no real reality...
$carface wrote:UT wasn't designed for one
Is there even one application explicitly designed for running in a VM? :lol:
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by $carface »

Barbie wrote: Is there even one application explicitly designed for running in a VM? :lol:
In other words and for those that couldn't work it out - UT was release with old technology in mind. Programs and applications released more recently have a better "compatibility" with such VMs.

When it comes to kernel and overheads of VMs. Running a server, particularly one that is weak on single core, will perform like dog shit if the environment is virtualised. I work with virtualised environments, every single day. For production game servers, they are rubbish.

There's a reason why real game server hosts, host on barebone servers, rather than emulated servers. It would be a lot more cost effective to host on emulated servers, but they don't. Try and answer that to yourself.
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Re: UT99 Server on virtual machine progressive degradation

Post by Lostsoul »

$carface wrote:All this drama. [...]
$carface wrote:[...] Try and answer that to yourself.
Uhm... [heavy off topic][...deleted...] [/heavy off topic]
I don't want to dirty this thread. But... (

Thank you all (except self-declared heroes). Another thing I've found is that Epic boy is a lagging map. Maps like Coret, Lava Giant and many others are well built and responsive. And some are... less. Now I've an old physical machine and UT99 seems to be running well.
:thuup: :tu: