UT99.org | Unreal Tournament Community

There may be topics like this, but hear me out.

This afternoon I enjoyed some bicycle trip through nature. It clears my head and calms down any stress I have.
While cycling, some new inspiring mapping fevers came inside of me and makes me start the editor asap .
Yes, let's start another monsterhunt map. Hopefully I can get the bots working this time. Also Higors bothpathing request topic inspired me too.
Then I thought, this is what I like to do and like to play at the moment, but is it what the players also want or need?
Are more developers / mappers / coders / contributors having the same question?

I should not care too much about what others 'want' since I should do what pleasures me most. But then again, maybe there are lot people out there wishing ' make more maps like this' .
They keep their experiences for themselves, which is ok. While not bringing it ut in the open, maybe certain server admins are begging for more specific gametypes or gameplay in certain gametypes .

I know there are a bazillion maps already on the web, just asking what is the current interests.
I think I'm going to post this topic on several forums more. So for players and admins both, leave your call on maps / options here.

For example "I'd like to see more CTF maps such as "CTF... " Or I find "DM-Dogtown" fun a fun map to play.
Or something totally else.
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I start off with my call : I really enjoy MH at the moment and hope that more players are going to map for this gametype as well. Also sniper camper maps I'd like to play in the late evening with a cold beer!

Edit: also added a poll.

I cannot vote, I would like to discuss not only about a single game-type. Yes, MH is nice, but we don't have to spread MH everywhere (it doesn't have a section for finding it there - you have to look in all Forum), we also can debate 2 types as well.

One thing I've noticed when looking for maps was that AS and DM were lacking in some maps. CTF and MH are very populated right now.

Also DOM!


But I don't play dom. It would be really nice to see more assault maps. With some good bot support too.

I too like camper/sniper maps - large, urban areas with plenty of places to hide with some possibility for stealthy movement - here think of SUF, BBST and ESG maps and the DarkCity or the Zahltag variants (and yes, even the Dogtown expansions), though there are plenty of other examples.

In addition I like to play

• 1 Medium to large DM/CFT maps for TeamDeathMatches and for using MonsterSpawn to drop in 20 or so monsters to hunt - should have a variety of different sized spaces including buildings and outside areas, plenty of z-axis action and innovative design and texturing - there are lots of these but FNB's maps spring to mind as good examples, as do maps by Bull and Angelheart (amongst others of course).
  
  2 MH maps that can be played and completed by one player (though that doesn't mean that the bots can't play the map as well) - should be some linearity in the map with a purpose or defined goals - for me, variety and interest are the key factors - a variety of types of spaces and of types and strengths of monsters - interest through variety plus thoughtful design with a coherent theme(s) and good texturing and through well thought out positioning of monsters, possibly with some ambushes (triggered as demonstrated by sektor2111, exploding decos or opening boxes/wall panels - none of which are used enough in MH maps) - not a fan of the 'go-to-a-room-and-kill-a-hundred-pupae-then-go-to-the-next-room-and-kill-a-hundred-flies' type of map nor of the garishly coloured/textured MH maps. Examples of what I like? Well again FNB's MH maps, Terraniux's PartyCrashers, the CrystalMine series, some of Thunderbolt's, sektor2111's Sk_Godz,etc, etc.

So, always looking out for these.

AS is clearly under-represented. But I know it's very difficult to create a good AS map where the balance should/could be very close to perfect.

DOM... well there are a bazillion of those maps. But only a few one with good game play. This DOM-Osiris and the two from our 512k contest are very good example of great DOM maps.

B-CTF ...only a few maps edited from me exist. We need more Burger CTF maps.

I have several. My top list are BT, MH, single player even though I'd invite someone to come play with me in single player, and Siege.

The other that aren't on the list: Xloc/Translocation maps (This one play almost the same role as BT except there is no speedrun/flags as the maps are mostly in DM/TDM), 2-sided maps (TDM, you play on your side of the team and use the sniper rifle to shoot the other player on the other side of the map. Can't cross the mid and can't go on other side as the rule of that map lol).

The honorable mention that isn't a gametype: Development for UT.

The other I could do some other times: CTF, TDM, AS, DOM, and JB... can't think of the other ones at the moment.

Really wanna see a few more Scavenger (not monster) Hunt maps. 2 teams explore the map and bring flags to their base, there's a 5, 10, 25 and 50 point flags to carry, as well as a black flag that if brought to the enemy base reduces their score by 50 points... So far this gametype has a few stock UT conversions and a handful of old Bot_40 exclusive maps. Gametype is bot supported so no problems offline.

Mod: http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?dir=Ga ... avhunt.zip
Maps: http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?dir=Ma ... angerHunt/

UnrealGGecko wrote:Really wanna see a few more Scavenger (not monster) Hunt maps. 2 teams explore the map and bring flags to their base, there's a 5, 10, 25 and 50 point flags to carry, as well as a black flag that if brought to the enemy base reduces their score by 50 points... So far this gametype has a few stock UT conversions and a handful of old Bot_40 exclusive maps. Gametype is bot supported so no problems offline.

Mod: http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?dir=Ga ... avhunt.zip
Maps: http://medor.no-ip.org/index.php?dir=Ma ... angerHunt/

This one sounds awesome, and could be easily used under modified Unreal SinglePlayer maps.

I am mostly into instagib CTF, and sometimes I play Siege and MH, but I like almost every gametype there is, even the custom spammy funnel ones.

I see in poll Assault game. Eheh, let's see this is suitable as SP. If you ask why probably some pros player will show some gaming which will drive you to AS deceptions - number of As servers is relevant at this point...

I don't enjoy non-vanilla game modes, and from these I enjoy DM and DOM the most.
Granted, I used to be a diehard fan of CTF, but as the game has aged, it has grown stale. This is completely linked to how long we've been playing this game.
Even though you never play the same match twice, a CTF match or an AS run are pretty much always similar because a map made for AS or CTF has to be quite linear. You go from your starting position to the objective and that's it (with the added run back home in CTF). Because of the rules themselves, you are bound to go to specific places in specific order to score. If you don't score, then you're defending and you're largely static or alternating between a number of defense points you know (if you're just trying to kill people, then you're playing DM on your CTF or AS map, which is valid, but then you're not following the rules and you enjoyment falls in line with what I'm going to say about DM).

DM and DOM maps (at least the good ones) have to be cyclical by definition, because you need to be able to go from any objective to any other objective at any time and from anywhere. This means you have to be able to navigate the map from all weapons to all other weapons in DM, with DOM adding the control points to the equation. You're always changing direction. A bad DOM map would be ring-shaped as you once again constrain the player to a linear series of objective (he can just decide to turn around and visit them in the opposite order), and a bad DM map is a map where you have places which suddenly restrict your ability to move everywhere. Hence why they tend to feel a lot mor hysterical and tensed. You actually never play the same match twice because every decision you take radically alters the course of the game; deciding to pick this weapon up before that one has great consequences on where you are, where your opponent is, and what happens when you meet. In CTF, you would load up as you wish in your base then rush to the flag and then back, your decision has much less influence on the course of the game than your accuracy and ability to kill. In DOM, things happen as they do in DM, with the added bonus that control points and time become much more central. Depending on what control point you visit, with which weapons, with what teammate, at what moment, in what order, you have to take into account so many parameters that it compounds into a completely unpredictable game.

If course all that holds true if the players are more or less equally as competent.
Incidentally, I've never been a fan of gimmick maps; I grew out of Face very quick, and quirky maps with funny layouts never amused me. I always prefered maps with intricate and cohesive layouts, even though this usually means much less believable environment, less impressive venues and the creation of a sort of "classical" style of maps. You know the one: three-four clearly indentifiable atriums with 2-3 height levels connected by 128/256 long portals (less prevalent in UT99 compared to UT2004, but still). As a consequence, the absolute best maps are those who fulfill these without falling into the "classical" trap.

Hellkeeper wrote:As a consequence, the absolute best maps are those who fulfill these without falling into the "classical" trap.

Is this a proven fact or your in-depth opinion?
Could you describe a few maps or gameplay that are classical 'traps'?'

Edit: Because I experienced certain guys that are wishing nothing but simple rooms and and just a stable working map. Nothing complex.
Maps aren't fun on their own, the player(s) make it fun, is their term of saying.....

Terraniux wrote:Is this a proven fact or your in-depth opinion?

Obviously my very own personnal opinion. The topic is about thinks we like, after all. And I don't think we can prove anything there, there's probably no study on these things.

Terraniux wrote:Could you describe a few maps or gameplay that are classical 'traps'?'

Right here right now, not for UT99. I have a number of them for UT2004 or Q3A. As I said, this is less of a problem with UT99, for some reason, maybe because people working on it are just more creative.
To name a few, my own DmP17 for Unreal/UT99 completely falls into this category. Several DM maps from the FoT maps also fit: Arken or Adenora for instance (and they're great, I don't mean that mapping this way is bad). For UT2004, maps such as Crash, Trite, LastCrusader or Lun3DM4 for Q3A also match this to a T.
Basically, this is when the map feels like a playing ground made for the game instead of being an actual place that just happens to host the game. The decoration feels just tacked-on. You have a pretty formulaic recipe to achieve a n easy-to-balance layout: make a number of large atriums, usually 3-4, rarely 2 or more than 4, usually three stories, sometimes 2, rarely more than 3, you can usually reach all height levels in any given atrium, a few isolated areas host powerful weapons while common ones are scattered here and there in the main rooms, and usually the several height levels are precisely at the same level in all atriums... It's hard to describe really, because it's precisely a bland description of any DM map that works. A complete opposite would be a map which, even while it follows the usual good practices, doesn't feel like it does. I like DM-FoT-Endymion precisely because it follows a lot of such rules but you don't see or feel them.

Terraniux wrote:Edit: Because I experienced certain guys that are wishing nothing but simple rooms and and just a stable working map. Nothing complex.
Maps aren't fun on their own, the player(s) make it fun, is their term of saying.....

Not sure I understand.

UnrealGGecko wrote:Really wanna see a few more Scavenger (not monster) Hunt maps.

I've been toying with something like this for a while. I've even done a bit of the prelim work. Here's what I was doing:

You take the spectrum of default maps and make them playable in a single gametype that I was also going to call Scavenger Hunt. I was going to hide golden (but not always) cows about the size of a vase all over the default maps. Each player would have a log of the ones they have found and it would be playable by yourself. Each player will spawn with only an enhanced translocator so that the maps are opened up for every nook and cranny. It sounds simple but there are some *ingenious* spots to hide cow statues that would take you time to uncover or discover. You think you know the default maps but I assure you that you really don't as well as you think you do.

Anyway it could be fun as different servers could compete to see who could complete the collection first. I can spawn the statues via obfuscated code to discourage cheating, stuff like that. Bob and I spent some time talking about how to hide statues and I promise you it would be much harder to find them all than you think. Simple things like making the player click the 'use' key to pick them up instead of just automatically doing it makes you think and look and not just run around like crazy. Also in doing the Mansion I am pretty confident I can stop any cheating attempts too that try to find them illegitimately.

So if there is ever a 'next project' from me it will either be this or some sort of DayZ gametype. Both are equally appealing to work on to me.

@ at Hellkeeper,

Thanks for explaining. Nah, it's more the thing I aint a native english speaker, so sometimes I double interpretate things 2 ways.
What I am saying is that some people out there are still wanting simple map recipes and nothing original / complex. For them these are the best.
And calling it 'traps' could be a bit, you know, discomforting for them. But I get your point.




@ Jack and Gecko,

Never heard of ScavengerHunt, you got my interest now!
Should be fun. Can some of show me good maps I can look into?
Edit: I noticed the mod as maps as well.


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Nice to see everyone is voting and commenting happily This is what I wanted, thank you all so far.