Yes, very well put - couldn't agree more with all of that

The best is the enemy of the good - in striving for perfection we may overlook everything that is good (and gives fun and enjoyment to people).
This forum has released official map packs of maps made specifically by folks that're members, usually made up of compilations from various mapping contests.
Smilies · https://ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13758medor wrote:Replace Skaarj with EvilGrins
Agree with you there.TexasGtar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:52 am My thoughts on this are:
Best maps made by community
What does that mean?
Of course it will be different to everyone. There are some maps that are just fun to play. I remember a map called 2 boxes full of lava, it was 2 boxes with lava. But online people loved it and I must admit that it was a lot of fun to play. Is it one of the best maps? If thousands of people loved playing it?
Then you have masterpieces like FNB's Orions Curse where the skybox alone would blow you away with the creativity . the amazing sights sounds complex layout. In fact any FNB map in my opinion is the best. Why? Because of the effort put into it, the amazing ability to transform you to another place with such limited graphics capabilities. I think he is the best mapper ever to open the editor.
As far as the technical side of this argument, I could care less if it isn't perfect as long as it works. You'll never get a map to be perfect in every way. You can tweak bot pathing, item placement, aligning textures, trim ever corner all day and it still won't be perfect. To me, that doesn't matter at all in what I would consider a best map.
What I like is a map that is pretty to look at, and offers an interesting architecture to battle in. A map is basically a room, then a hall to next room, etc. It isn't that complicated. But to make a really good map you have to have good gameplay. If it isn't fun to play, then it doesn't matter how cool it looks. If it looks cool but is boring to play, then you just have a fun to look at map with not much replayability.
It is hard to get gameplay, and scenery and well thought out architecture with battles on several levels to get a great map. And not every part of a great map will be great.
Bottom line is that every player will have their own idea of what is a best map and to them, that is a best map. It doesn't have to be best in everyone's opinion.
==========================================
As far as what is "community" I would say it is everyone except the people who got paid to make the game. Simple as that. The fan base is the community.
And everyone who opened the editor for whatever reason and made a map should be commended as well as the community who helped them get to a point where they could make a "best" map at some point in their mapping career. Even if they never do. I know that without the help of unreal playground, I would have never gotten to the point I did where I was fairly satisfied with some of my creations. There was always people willing to help and that was really special and worth acknowledging that without each others help, we wouldn't have so many possible "best maps"
my 2 cents
Not an overall issue but an issue enough for saying Nothing - I REPEAT × 10 times if needed, these can be used as a GUIDE by others less experienced because are claimed best maps, there is NOTHING to learn about A.I. traps here... and 4000+ reachSpecs perhaps are talking more than words... Lifts and the rest are NOT an example to follow by new mappers. You should learn stuff from these maps instead of "how not to do". Yes, simple cubes usually are working more properly than these uber duber lol-A.I.-traps. If you can recall DM-Pressure - Bots are trapping you properly - here the challenge is mainly None or it happens by accident. And NO for me this is not one of BEST maps.
Code: Select all
MaxNumFound: I found 4258 reachspecs, from 0 to 4257.
WarnDist: 64 reachSpecs have nodes claimed too close.
...
StaticsCheck: Actor ExplodingWall0 is screwed as bNoDelete. Check it... //Will this ever be destroyed as it calls that itself ? Hello ?
StaticsCheck: Actor ExplodingWall3 is screwed as bNoDelete. Check it...
...
LEVELVALIDATE: Level Validation:
NetJerking: Found DistanceLightning0 which is an UT net-gaming bugger. //Flickering junks
NetJerking: Found DistanceLightning1 which is an UT net-gaming bugger.
NetJerking: Found DistanceLightning2 which is an UT net-gaming bugger.
NetJerking: Found DistanceLightning4 which is an UT net-gaming bugger.
NetJerking: Found DistanceLightning5 which is an UT net-gaming bugger.
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart1
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart2
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart3
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart4
NotAGoodTrap: TrapSpringer0 is wrong set without both names definition. Usually this heads to a self removal in run-time.
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart0
NotAGoodTrap: TrapSpringer1 is wrong set without both names definition. Usually this heads to a self removal in run-time.
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart5
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart6
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart7
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart8
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart9
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart10
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart11
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart12
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart13
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart14
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart15
PlayerStart: Checking PlayerStart16
UTStockJunksDetected: Map is not really great in Network play with DistanceLightning actors.
FixTrapSpringers: TrapSpringer actors must have both names completed and well connected for working properly.
LEVELVALIDATE: Validation done...
ZoningChecker: ZoneInfo6 and ZoneInfo19 share the same zone
ZoningCheck: Operation finished.
I think that's an unrealistic and unreasonable expectation for maps made by enthusiasts (the community) - one could reasonably expect to use one of the default/stock maps as a guide on how to do certain things as they were made by professional mappers (DM-Pressure on how to do a TrapSpringer, for example - people are more likely to turn to that one than they are to the map under discussion, after all there is nothing to indicate to a casual player of the map that there are TrapSpringers in the map). Possibly quite a few maps made by the community do provide examples of various things for people to follow but there is no necessary reason why they should do - that is more a byproduct than a core reason for making a map.sektor2111 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:57 pm I REPEAT × 10 times if needed, these can be used as a GUIDE by others less experienced because are claimed best maps ... You should learn stuff from these maps instead of "how not to do".
You did not even understood what I was talking about. DM-Pressure is NOT a good sample in any Way. DM-Pressure works because they edited TrapSpringer code - it does a SELF HACK - Line 18-20 of class TrapSpringer.uc, that's why mappers are not getting why the heck that thing works while other settings done like a sort of copy of DM-Pressure don't work.