DM-Deck16][ improved paths

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:14 pm

DM-Deck16_rS592_NN.7z
Okay, for me Deck16][ looks finished. This one should be:
- monster compatible;
- Human hunter compatible;
- NewNet compatible - Teleporters are part of Navigation Network but they are not referenced in any reachSpecs. Routes are plain ground types but heading through teleporter to next PathNode nearby redeemer;
- Lifts have normal paths not R_Special (I'm starting to wonder why would they need to be Special... )
This is not for Bots with skill 0 playing in Classic Difficulty and Novice mode - those are penguins not Bots.

Edit:
Any future version probably will have some INI file for configuring whatever things... aggressiveness level, shortcuts for navigation, etc. whatever. That's not a priority right now.
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by Ubir4 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:13 pm

Idea magnifique. (Y)

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:29 pm

I think other idea might be somehow more useful...
If NewNet has some fantasies about ruining custom teleporters done for other purposes than teleporting and if coders are not willing to solve their insanity about what they do at Bots and Teleporters, perhaps it's time to get rid of BullShits creating a "guard" in map which has the patience of a feline. Whenever a new crap is added for making a mess with a teleporter the "feline" guard (Yes, I had cats at old house) will deactivate the junk for good. Right now I have support for Translocator configured as a Teleporter child but what NewNet does will make it useless and then... if I'm thinking well, these sort of teleporters might run a self-guard in a state code blowing garbage away from them - this will be my response for NewNet's jerkish "replacements" - G.T.F.O., not all teleporters are having a Teleporting purpose, geniuses.

PS Note :ironic: random brain reaction: For V217 of this "improved" map my proposal is adding 3000 brushes/rooms at bottom of map and filling them with all sort of stock actors, all of them doing nothing but sitting there and hosting all stock textures inside. The Goal is to have a Deck16 having 200 MB and fixed later at 900 MB. In whatever v6, in a random evening, I wiped floor with two bots in a server where I had 320+ ms ping (I'm not a high skilled player, no worries) - that's all about "improved paths". Bot is just Bot doesn't matter how much trash has the map, all adds are plain useless.

Now I go to think at code structure for said guard actor... it should be simple and quickly doing it's job... or creating a Teleporter, auto-guarding itself - I think this is more simple but... a bit more expensive...
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sun May 16, 2021 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:26 am

I was asked in private about something which was embedded in one from that mountain of Deck16 maps, it's a new sort of PathNode. Question was: What do you think about this ?

Code: Select all

class ExtraCostPathNode expands PathNode;

var() int ThisNodeCost;

event int SpecialCost(Pawn Seeker)
{
	return ThisNodeCost;
}
defaultproperties
{
	....
}
Let me see... Due to the lack of explanations toward these Devs, people were working at things, some of them being entirely useless, exactly, useless all the way and just slowing down processing... SpecialCost is recommended when you have more situations needed. Pawn A has all needs to pass, Pawn B don't have and so we need to process multiple conditions, for a single value doesn't make any sense. LiftCenter is a direct evidence...
If we want a "heavy" spot we can use ExtraCost, for ONE single value applied this can be embedded without calling an event. Either way ClearPaths() assign cost based on ExtraCost directly in C++ getting over UScript.

Code: Select all

inline void APawn::clearPath(ANavigationPoint *node)
{
	//debugf("Clear %s",node->GetName());
	node->visitedWeight = 10000000;
	node->nextOrdered = NULL;
	node->prevOrdered = NULL;
	node->bEndPoint = 0;
	if ( node->bSpecialCost )
		node->cost = node->eventSpecialCost(this);
	else
		node->cost = node->ExtraCost; //Simple as that - easily adjusting this without a new node doing the same thing and slower
}
Note: See bEndPoint stuff, ahem... I don't think that is even needed since network it seems like it has an extremely dynamic EDITING process in run-time... more of this data is changed each seeking cycle - good luck with 10000 reachSpecs and X thousands of paths.
I apology if I did a too simple Deck16 but... I don't have any plans for extra-paths just for the sake of having paths.
Note: this way map can be cleaned right from Editor by Spawning Scout and calling "Scout.ClearPaths()" post pathing - okay, that useless 10000000 can be embedded in a console command / button / function (MapGarbage does this CleanUp at once with OldLocation data).

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 pm

Okay... I've done a little tiny small research in who ruins Teleporters in several servers...
If whatever older NewNet has restrictive replacements mainly around stock teleporters, I think we talk about TeleporterFix whatever version replacing every single Teleporter even if this one doesn't include teleporting purpose. I could notice a VM (I think it's Vulpine Mission) which is a bit more smarter preventing swJumpad classes from being slapped in crap. However, this looks the only non stock class excepted from being ruined.
Any way NewNet code is "funny" (right term would be dumber than a rock)

Code: Select all

	ForEach AllActors(class'Teleporter', B)
	{
		if (B.Class.Name != 'Teleporter' && B.Class.Name != 'FavoritesTeleporter' && B.Class.Name != 'VisibleTeleporter')
			continue;
		Loc = B.Location;	// for dumb ass mappers who put the fucking portal in the wall
		T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		if (T == None) {
			Loc.X += 18;
			T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		}
		if (T == None) {
			Loc.X -= 36;
			T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		}
		if (T == None) {
			Loc.X += 18;
			Loc.Y += 18;
			T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		}
		if (T == None) {
			Loc.Y -= 36;
			T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		}
		if (T == None) {
			Loc.Y += 18;
			Loc.Z += 18;
			T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		}
		if (T == None) {
			Loc.Z -= 36;
			T = Spawn(class'NN_Teleporter', B.Owner, B.Tag, Loc, B.Rotation);
		}
		if (T == None) {
			xxLog("!!!!!!! A PORTAL HAS BEEN PLACED INSIDE A WALL !!!!!!!");
			xxLog("!!!!!!! UNABLE TO MAKE IT A NEWNET PORTAL !!!!!!!");
			xxLog("!!!!!!! EDIT THE MAP TO FIX THIS !!!!!!!");
			continue;
		}
Yep... nice comment.... Dumbass is the "coder" who thinks it's coder, ahem, read it again you, monkey-brain - considering exclamations from last section this is similar to a jungle environment - get a banana or something useful. Some of these "smart as a birdie child" are not having any clue about UE1 rules regarding to spawning actors. If your class would have bCollideWhenPlacing FALSE and bCollideWorld FALSE, that trash Teleporter would spawn ANYWHERE in 3D Space, and this can be completely"collidized" after one or two ticks later... You have to be kidding here, this is blabbering not coding. You can move everywhere in Editor with your Edit camera from ViewPort. Why ? Because has all properties required for being everywhere not like these f@rt$ bumping into walls like a drunk hen. Biography... go get some study about "ghost" command... I won't ask who owns a Teleporter from map...

Let me see... I think in XXI century this sort of "fix" (isn't fixing that much), it should have a more mature implementations such as user defined class names which must be left alone/excepted because they are not for teleporting, are just extra A.I. stuff - is called development here and there. Last time such a great teleporterfix added as ServerPackage was moving collision crash from server into client - lol fix... exactly, client crashed as it does sometimes at warps... And then, perhaps it's time to reconsider that maps are not guilty for wrecks used in servers, end of story with mooing teleporters. Admin/Mapper has the job to respond regarding to map's ReadMe what is used, or maybe mappers will fix problem as long as coders are smoking some stuff outside yelling at clouds like wolfs, let's see... it can be used a Full Lift Combo through walls almost in Teleporter's radius and a small kicker nicely added in teleporter's collision range... :pfff: . To not forget that we can make routes shorter through combos for being a priority in front of Teleporter and... Have fun !

Edit: Things to know: TeleporterFix vX whatever should have a list with classes excepted from being rammed.
NewNet replacing stock teleporters won't have A.I. access through them because they need Paths aka ReachSpecs which Plain UT is not creating out of Editor, and neither changing current specs to New teleporters. A NewNet map is recommended to have other stuff such as Fake warps or Combos LE-LC-LE through these points - in hoping that future NewNet "fascinating" mods won't "fix" WarpZones...

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by Buggie » Sun May 16, 2021 2:02 pm

Beta5:
- just reduce count for reachspecs from 9648 to 1100 by this advice:
https://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Un ... g_FAQ_(UT)
My reachspecs keep increasing at each rebuild. Can I decrease it again?
Reachspecs keep increasing at each rebuild even when you didn't change the pathnode network. To clean things up you do the following:
  1. Select a Pathnode.
  2. Right-Click it and click Select All Pathnodes.
  3. Right-Click again and goto Order and click Last.
  4. Rebuild.
Now the reachspecs should be reset.
But I use

Code: Select all

actor select ofsubclass class=navigationpoint
for select all NavigationPoints, not only Pathnodes.
DM-Deck16][bots5.zip
Also built with patched UnrealEd where in native edited limit of 1000uu for create network to 1600uu, so can be some small negligible differences in paths.
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Sun May 16, 2021 4:08 pm

I have an Editor-Button for command "map sendto last". If done after removing paths, saving map, closing everything, reloading map and defining clean paths, all junks are vanished for good and specs are reduced without a single junk spec, all are valid data. Current builder which I'm toying with it can actually use a lot of nodes because it won't accept a lot of paths to be created connected from the same node and added in map, it's simplified with current nodes charge and working correctly, then reducing range under 1000 prevents a lot of spam type connections and PrunedPaths.
Extra tweaks are doable but... it's time consuming - including paths toggling and fancy combos for jumping, even light colors can be altered in certain instances... when admin wants more dynamics.
I have to admit that I did not test builder it yet in Deck16... but I'll do it, not before removing extra nodes out of purpose (near Shield and Vials) and making bottom Teleporter reachable, or spoofing paths with a Lift combo using LE PainPath LE, because it's more simple... and it will stop NewNet from being dumb.

If you are curious I can record a small video where I'm using 3 custom buttons for creating a clean network and you'll see that working a clean network is a piece of cake.
UnDefine Paths - Map SendTo Last - Define Paths. Here without saving and reopening will be InventorySpotxxx and not starting with InventorySpot0 - I always track less data and less history held. After building paths I'm deleting all OldLocation data from all new actors created - InventorySpot in stage. All this work takes under 5 minutes.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Sun May 16, 2021 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by Buggie » Sun May 16, 2021 4:19 pm

Test with 3 Godlike usual bots. All fine. GOD bot (all stats maximized) can get 70 frags when I get 50.
Tamerlane be third. Near 20 frags.

No found glitch except one - I play with TL - bots stuck at JumpSpots for thin ways. Try endless TL to up here:
scr_1621178096.png
But I think this is rare case because most times TL must be disabled on DM servers, or it will be telefrag show.

For other stuff - it is pretty good. Bots even use redemeer. Fall to armor from above, Pickup shield from different angles and so on.

But after pick up pulse gun never choose another way rather from directly to RL. But this is not a paths problem.
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Thu May 27, 2021 10:26 pm

Maybe a little tiny bit Off-Topic.
#1 My games are Translocator based so flawed maps are not a goal.
#2 Said map Deck16 having some little manual working at paths is now a bit revised at geometry reducing map-size with the same simple paths - 804 kb and 265 kb as uz file for redirects (using 64k compression buffer) perhaps compatible with any weak DSL line.
Not only removing bytes and extra-Paths have reduced processing but... merging polys delivered more data removed.
Now I have ZERO reasons for keeping original map in repositories...
The Proof...
DM-Deck16_rS592a.7z
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by Red_Fist » Fri May 28, 2021 1:38 am

"My games are Translocator based so flawed maps are not a goal"

let me correct that

Using a Translocator is flawed since it lets players move in unnatural ways. UNLESS it's CTF

Wish they never made that damn thing, plus CTF is not DM !!!!!
Let me run away with my translocator and use my shock rifle. :thudown: :thudown: :thudown: :loool:
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Fri May 28, 2021 4:06 am

This is under discussions, in a DM with a good game flow you don't have more time for translocator because you can be eliminated faster, you might want to check such experience On-Line and see what is about. Either way a bunch of "sniper" aka arena servers are using various translocator types and are well ranked servers... using maps where you NEED this - a more recent sniper map triggered such a discussion by the way.
To bad that some people did not figure unreal's reality from ON-Line gaming. Like I said, this is my default setup and it will stay as it is - with a fixed Translocator, it's not Epic's one.
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by papercoffee » Fri May 28, 2021 4:09 am

I like to use the razored translocator from NW3 because you can use it offensive as well ... :mrgreen:

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by Que » Fri May 28, 2021 5:50 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 4:06 am
... with a fixed Translocator, it's not Epic's one.
Is this available online ? Be kean to try.
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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by sektor2111 » Fri May 28, 2021 2:02 pm

Explained different.
DeathMatchPlus used by me has a few adds for supporting Monsters. Here it comes fixing some "accessed none" from plain Translocator when Monster is telefraged - and Bot shooting his own target disc - lol, Epic. Here I'm talking about using any DM map but with other external assets, nothing added in map - map stays stock compatible. It can be used normally or with Translocator - if admin has a more usable translocator, in BotPack.DeathMatchPlus or another custom DeathMatchPlus. There is nothing special at this point except some paths which I deleted and a few user made paths are added + merging some polygons.
MGS server has the map loaded as replacement for DM-Deck16][ which I removed and right now I've replaced stock Deck16][ in my private repository too.

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Re: DM-Deck16][ improved paths

Post by Red_Fist » Fri May 28, 2021 6:24 pm

That is all ok, but for my thoughts is it allows players to get in places the mapper never intended but to only to destroy the whole idea of the creator-map.

This same thing - problem was also in Quake 1, some idiot camper hanging out on some ceiling beam constantly shooting rockets in peoples backs from above. Now in Painkeep, Then BEST DM ever made, we had a grapple that it don't stick to every surface, took a little work and you had to hold a button down to to keep hanging on ceilings. At least you could get to places to move around the map but not sit in a lounge chair while shooting. I loved Painkeep for Quake 1, bear taps once snapped you could hear where the player was with hurting sounds LoL. Pork and beans that make you fart but get a higher jump from it, and century guns and some very useful weapons. I wish it could be redone for UT99, exact same as the Quake 1 version of Painkeep.
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