CTF-XV-Torlan

[Buggie]

Rework for CTF with X-Vehicles this map:
ONS-Torlan

This map need XVehicles at least v41 for load:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14936

CTF-XV-TorlanV2.7z

(4.52 MiB) Downloaded 25 times

[EvilGrins]

This is an impressively HUGE map that overall looks good but could stand some further tinkering. I think there's too many vehicles in the base, jeeps could be parked just outside for example... and I think the helicopters might work better if perched up where the sniper rifles are.

Haven't yet, but kinda wanna check it out in the editor because bots don't seem to be using the obvious sniper position as a defense point. Also, tempted to edit (for testing purposes) a variant with no vehicles because there seems to be some bot pathing issues which are hard to determine when bots are driving.

Something that's come up before, awhile ago, is that ut2004 maps are much larger than ut99 maps... and that ut99 can go that large but not great...

UT2004's Invasion has MonsterHunt beat on so many levels:


Not the first time I've wished that ut99 maps could be built that BIG.

Judging from that screenshot I can say UT1 maps can be bigger than that, but it's not advisable since UT1 doesn't have distance fog to occlude far buildings (although that can be done to an extent, even with UScript alone I believe).
But yeah, even so, with UEngine 2.x (UT2k4) is possible to build huge maps (I think the "buildable" available space is around 10x or 15x more than in UEngine1.x (UT1, Unreal, etc)), even RPG mods were built there because of that.

...Ferali is correct about fog, but more than that what's evident here are large gaps seen at a distance of the mountains and that statue in the middle where what's behind them can be seen in cracks.


On a random note, I'd not noticed before that Mantas firepower has a limited range. Only because a bot in a manta was shooting at a tank on the far side of the map could I see its shots weren't making it that far.

[OjitroC]

...Ferali is correct about fog, but more than that what's evident here are large gaps seen at a distance of the mountains and that statue in the middle where what's behind them can be seen in cracks.

The 'cracks' in the textures are down to the renderer used - in 469c RC-4 with D3D9 I don't get what you have shown in your screenshots but I do see a line/crack in the textures of the hillsides at certain points (these are also in the orginal ONS map - which is for UT and which I have previously converted to XVehicles for my own use off-line).

On the botpathing issues, sektor's MapGarbage indicates that there are about 10 or so pathnodes without incoming connections. There's also one with no connections at all (which I have removed).

Spoiler

UnReachableNodes: Skipping UTJumpPad1 because it has no Destination.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode7784 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8647 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8658 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8659 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8673 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8685 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8693 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8787 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: PathNode8789 looks much over ground for normal Human Size, check it.
UnReachableNodes: Here we have 1 points skipped, 9 Navigation Points which are too high and 1719 good ones.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7317 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7399 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7512 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7520 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7559 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7594 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7624 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7629 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7644 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7646 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7653 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7697 is not having incoming connections.
NoIncomingPath: PathNode7723 is not having incoming connections.

[EvilGrins]

When it comes to standard bot assignment, the defaults are based on 4-bot teams.

1 - attacks
2 - defends
3 - backs up 1
4 - freelances

All very standard, and while I don't see any defense points setup on the map, the 2nd bot on each team does stay in the base and defend it.

[Buggie]

Vehicles in base for reflect original Torlan layout.

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Sniper spot on top useless. I able come with jeep, take falg and run away and bot will be stupidly stay on top and do nothing except shoot in my jeep.
lso sniper less effective from shock IIRC, because jeeps reduce damage of type `shot`.
So place defense point on top just make bot useless and out it from game.
It only good work for walking enemies.

But there hard stolen flag on foots and easy on jeep, so no point walk on foot.

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Map more human play, rather from bots. There no good solution for paths.
Vehicle must able chase you on hills and in same time if they ride to enemy base, better avoid hills.

Make paths for walking is easy and it is pretty fine here. But make it is for vehicles in such terrains is awful. Bots often drop vehicle or try drive to one spot.
They almost not able reach enemy base on vehicle.

Also there no good air paths. Already hit limit of navigations nodes. I can easily add 3000+ nodes for air paths only.

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I notice there some stupidity of defend bots. It can stay back to flag and when I arrive on jeep he not react at all as leaf. I exit and take flag. Only after that it notice me but it is too late.

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Summarize - this map mostly for human play. Bots not able play here nicely during engine limitation and how bots works.
it can be polished to some state but this be kind hard work with small effect on the end.
I plan maybe eventually make some corrections for most awful things, but in general all stay same.
It is almost as Oasis map, where only players know how properly play. But there also very weird and bugged terrain, which produce invisible obstacles for vehicles only and make things much more harder.

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Automatically merged

Also I wanna add here fog, as in original, but unfortunately this map laggy even without it on some places.
Especially where tower visible. So this will kill fps entirely.

[Deepu]

Export the brush to Milkshape 3d then do merge to the nearest vertex to fix the gap problems

[Buggie]

This not help. Tower brush is broken.

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Automatically merged

Gameplay on map:

[EvilGrins]

Come to think of it, map could use a redeemer on that bridge under the statue.

[Deepu]

Let me check

[Buggie]

v1

- Fixes for bsp errors.
- Fixes for towers gaps.
- Add defense points.
- Fix mountains end zone walls.

Update in first post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15451

[Buggie]

v2

- Fixes for bsp issues.
- Bug fixes.

Update in first post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15451