Double Relics?

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caver01
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Double Relics?

Post by caver01 »

Has anyone seen this before? I am running a server in dedicated mode with a handful of mutators but nothing unusual: FNN, Revenge, GotchaBitchV2, Ultra Gore, MapvoteExtended--and of course all six relics.

Odd thing happens sometimes that I cannot explain--usually when I am messing around in a CTF game--let's say CTF-Face which happened yesterday. It's just me and 5 bots. . . and as the game starts, I pickup the hourglass relic of speed, and lo and behold, there's another hourglass over here. . . What? Why are there two? And as I look around there are two of every relic.

The balancing effect might be cool if I didn't know better--or if one team per set was a feature. . . but this seems odd/broken, so I map vote into a different map. . . two again. So I quite out, admin my server, kill the UCC and relaunch. All is well. But I have seen this a few times now. Any ideas where double-relics are coming from?

There are a few modes in my MapVote, but again, nothing unusual. I play some XVehicles CTF on there and it comes up on those maps too. Very odd. Thoughts?
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EvilGrins
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by EvilGrins »

I haven't used Relics in a long time, but I suspect if you're playing a team game there might be a set of relics forever how many teams are in play.

To even things up.

What's really confusing is using the Pinata mutator, which causes people to drop items they're holding when they die... which after a few minutes makes multiples of each relic for some reason. You can wind up with a lot more sets of relics than there would be even for 4 teams.
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sektor2111
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by sektor2111 »

caver01 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 1:07 am There are a few modes in my MapVote, but again, nothing unusual. I play some XVehicles CTF on there and it comes up on those maps too. Very odd. Thoughts?
I haven't seen relics working another way. Somewhere in code is destroyed only relic without an Owner, it's also a timer in stage. Mutator is getting called for a new relic by some relic itself at a moment, and there might be created other copies...

Feel free to do another sort of child relic mutator and add more checks if you want relic rules to be different.
caver01
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by caver01 »

sektor2111 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:26 amI haven't seen relics working another way.
Really? In all the years I have played UT, whenever relics are enabled, there has only ever been one of each kind if enabled. Are you saying you always see multiple speed, multiple health etc. in a given game? I can’t imagine it is supposed to work that way.

They add advantage, of course, and it is debatable which are more useful than others, but at least some balancing effects can come from having one to oppose advantages of another.
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EvilGrins
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by EvilGrins »

caver01 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 6:39 pmwhenever relics are enabled, there has only ever been one of each kind
Just going to leave this here...
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f7r
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by f7r »

And I've put my two cents in as well.
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EvilGrins
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by EvilGrins »

f7r wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:21 pmmy two cents
What's the relic of wealth?
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f7r
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by f7r »

EvilGrins wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 9:18 pm What's the relic of wealth?
Looks like a bullet. Constantly regens ammo.   
Auto merged new post submitted 10 minutes later
This is part of Wormbo's EnhancedItems mutators.
caver01
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by caver01 »

Woah! Ok. So this is just normal? how have I missed this 20 odd years ago? I am just dumbstruck. are multiples like this intentional? Like double or triple enabling a relic mutator and I am unintentionally doing that, or do they spawn doubles like that normally? Is this just a bug everyone has happily ignored thinking it was working as designed? Do we know it was designed to work like that?

Honestly, I am surprised to see these responses, as I would not have mentioned it at all if I thought it was normal, but I guess I am mistaken. Wow.
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sektor2111
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by sektor2111 »

Bugged or not, their rules can be different, hobby coders can define even rules at how many of them need to be in game.
However, a relic spawns and it can be taken. And then... no more relics available... If the guy with relic is hiding somewhere camping there, there won't be any other relics...
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OjitroC
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by OjitroC »

caver01 wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:01 am Woah! Ok. So this is just normal?
No, it's not normal - I have seldom seen it happen though I have seen it. When it did happen, I put it down to the specific map (without any real evidence for that however) - possibly down to a specific zone in the map that didn't destroy the relic correctly when a player/bot died in that zone.

If it is caused by a conflict with one of your muators you can choose a map in which you know it has happened - remove all the mutators (except for the relics) - start the map - check that there are no duplicate relics - then add back in the mutators one by one - if you get duplicates after adding a particular mutator then you know that there is some kind of conflict there. If you get no duplicates then ...?
caver01
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by caver01 »

sektor2111 wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:11 am If the guy with relic is hiding somewhere camping there, there won't be any other relics...
Yeah, that can be a strategy too I suppose. On occasion, I have played CTF with a bot on my team who has the speed relic (can hear and see it when he's near), yet he happens to be guarding the flag. If I had a command to "drop yer relic, sir" I could use! I could also command him to "Get their flag", but that's more likely to drop it into enemy hands.

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone. It sounds like normal design is one copy per, but it's possible for various reasons to see behavior like I described (and others have shared) since it's not like the relic parameters are protected from conflicts--intentional or accidental.
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by EvilGrins »

caver01 wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:01 am So this is just normal?
Largely only happens in conjunction with another mutator, in my case Pinata. When you die, you drop everything you have but the Relics are items which disappear and respawn... and they don't make the distinction for a dropped Relic so they spawn a new one in its place.
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OjitroC
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by OjitroC »

f7r wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:21 pm And I've put my two cents in as well.
For me one of the interesting things that emerges from this discussion is that one can actually use more than one copy of a relic - I've been using Wormbo's Enhanced Relics for many years now and didn't realise that that was possible - so yeah thanks for that and I may put that to use going forward.
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Re: Double Relics?

Post by EvilGrins »

Most of my experience with Relics is from years ago, I stopped using them on the regular due to an annoying facet of them.

As I use a wide range of models beyond the standard ones ut99 utilizes, I quickly got sick of the fact some Relics caused a permanent "shimmer" to stay on certain models after usage.

Never could find a solid reason why this occurred.
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