Editor: References to packages - although not used at all

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Creavion
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Editor: References to packages - although not used at all

Post by Creavion »

Bloeb wrote:Creavion, when you load a package it does not become automagically referenced somewhere. You still need to place an item from the package in the map..
Its not like I would have just recently started to map. I dont know for how long you are already making levels, but I have experienced several odd situations with the unrealed.

I can tell you an example from the past: I loaded once a music file and just LISTENED to it in the ed (music browser). I continued with mapping, but I did not add the music file to the map, so either in the level properties or to a music event actor. So it was NOT added to the map. Somebody else did not hold that certain music file to which I only LISTENED and the ed did not load the map, because the package was missing. Somehow the editor saved the package as some kind of reference in the level. At that time I did not know the ed`s behaviour that well and really wondered why the ed screwed around.
Also during loading of one of my cmp2 maps - I dont remember which one - I once saw the ed was about to load DecayedS.utx. I never even LOADED that package.


Edit: In this case there really is a swjumppad in the map. Use "Search for actors" to find it.
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Re: [BETA- Release] CTF-Pisgah

Post by Bloeb »

Creavion wrote:
Bloeb wrote:Creavion, when you load a package it does not become automagically referenced somewhere. You still need to place an item from the package in the map..
Its not like I would have just recently started to map. I dont know for how long you are already making levels, but I have experienced several odd situations with the unrealed.
So? It's not like I've recently started mapping either ... I don't mean to be an asshole but your experiences on this matter don't mean anything to me. I've had to help various people with similar issues. In the end all of them either accidently added the reference or didn't delete the reference properly. I can only think of one situation that supports your experience; When you load a package which holds a reference to another package.
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Re: [BETA- Release] CTF-Pisgah

Post by Creavion »

Oh well, good thing I got confirmation by somebody who is working with the UDK and stated this got even worse with later unrealeds.
Dont get me wrong, its nothing against you. But I seriously dont like it if somebody want me to believe the earth is a disc, although its already proofed its a sphere (although not even this is 100 % right)
Sigh: However, since I am not talking bs in this matter, here we go...

The music issue really is even easy to reproduce - I am surprised about that myself -, do the following:
1. Copy ANY musicfile and rename it .. however you want. In my case it was craptesttest.umx (a copied and renamed Journey.umx)
2. Load that music file into the music browser and listen to it.
3. Make anything with a simple testlevel, subtract a cube and rebuid it for example and SAVE the map.
4. Reload UnrealEd and remove the music file you only listen to.
5. If done right, you should not be able to load the map anymore, since it saved a reference to the following package:
Can't find file for package 'CRAPTESTTEST'

For me it worked for the first time.
And about the strange DecayedS.utx loading progress: Its my Kamah. However, I could not take a screenshot as proof what I am saying, I tried it several times, its just not possible.

I hope thats clarified now.
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Re: [BETA- Release] CTF-Pisgah

Post by Bloeb »

Ok, I'll give it a try. I'm also interested to see the code for loading packages and saving maps (if that's possible without an NDA), it sounds really fucked up to be honost.

edit:

I can't reproduce that behaviour at all. I'm interested to hear someone with more indepth information.

edit2:

Loading DM-UTR-Kamah doesn't load DecayedS. I'm not sure what you're trying to say or prove with this.
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Creavion »

Crapmusictest.zip
(447.56 KiB) Downloaded 95 times
Try it.
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Bloeb »

Looks like you're half-right. Somehow the music-package-reference is tied to the brush-texture. If you replace the textures on the brush by another texture the reference to the music-package is gone.
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Creavion »

Interesting, so the editor tries to apply a music file to a surface?! Oh well, thats something I did definitely not know. Thanks. Looks like we both were right and wrong at the same time.
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Hook »

This is probably how many mappers unknowingly "miss" files that are supposed to associated with maps they produce, but they cannot figure out why because they didn't use that file package at all in the map.
I have had this happen when I was working on one map (map A), then close out map A and load in Map B.
I usually completely close Ued and restart it when opening another map.
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Bloeb »

Creavion wrote:Interesting, so the editor tries to apply a music file to a surface?! Oh well, thats something I did definitely not know. Thanks. Looks like we both were right and wrong at the same time.
We could discuss semantics here, but lets just leave it here. I'll admit that I'm quite surprised by this odd behaviour. ;)
Hook wrote:This is probably how many mappers unknowingly "miss" files that are supposed to associated with maps they produce, but they cannot figure out why because they didn't use that file package at all in the map.
I have had this happen when I was working on one map (map A), then close out map A and load in Map B.
I usually completely close Ued and restart it when opening another map.
I highly doubt it. By my experience with other mappers, the problems with package-references stem from inexperience, not odd behaviour. Most mappers are simply unable to retrace the steps they've taken and fix the problems.
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by JackGriffin »

I'm highly interested in this problem but I cannot replicate the behavior. Are you running a windows install?
So long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Creavion »

JackGriffin wrote:I'm highly interested in this problem but I cannot replicate the behavior. Are you running a windows install?
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Raylen »

I also couldn't repoduce it. Maybe I did stuff in the wrong order or something. Textures can have other things appiled though right...such as ONPfootsteps which I've seen around, although I may be mistaken...

:)
Thanks in advance for answering the above question!
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by Bloeb »

Raylen, the Texture-class has a FootstepSound-property. That's not what the issue is about though. It's about Surfaces having a reference to an object or class that is not a Texture. ;)
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Re: Editor: References to packages - although not used at al

Post by JackGriffin »

Let me clarify too that the footstep sound variable does not work in UT (online). It was overlooked or excluded when replication was being sussed out.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
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