Strange 3d brush

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hee
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Strange 3d brush

Post by hee » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:37 am

I was looking at RimeIsle and there is a deciduous forest. The foliage is made from brushes that are semi-solid, but you can pass through them. It appears that each surface is one pixel wide. Does anyone know how to make these objects? I can't figure it out.

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by UnrealGGecko » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:30 am

Think you mean this map? Best to link what map your talking about.
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 0ae46.html

Most likely either just trees from Actor > Decoration, or custom ones that are made to have those decoration properties, just with no collision. Not at home to check, but they're most likely meshes.

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by hee » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:12 pm

UnrealGGecko wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:30 am
Think you mean this map? Best to link what map your talking about.
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... 0ae46.html

Most likely either just trees from Actor > Decoration, or custom ones that are made to have those decoration properties, just with no collision. Not at home to check, but they're most likely meshes.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, that is the map. These are not actors. They are brushes. The trunks are also brushes. They are solid and can be used as defense in combat. The foliage is semi-solid, but does not block actors. The texture on the foliage is a basic grass. The surfaces appear to be one pixel wide (that would probably be the reason they do not block), but I do not understand how he constructed them. Is it possible to intersect sheets into a 3d brush?

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Barbie » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:09 pm

If you inspect one of the non-solid brushes in T3D, you'll notice that the polygons have set a value for flags. Take for example Brush6 in T3D:

Code: Select all

Begin Map
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush6
    CsgOper=CSG_Add
    MainScale=(Scale=(X=2.000000,Y=1.500000),SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
    PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
    PolyFlags=32
    Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
    Tag=Brush
    Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=14,ZoneNumber=1)
    Location=(X=-912.000000,Y=-592.000000,Z=-1648.000000)
    Rotation=(Yaw=88064)
    OldLocation=(X=1280.000000,Y=-4896.000000,Z=-4032.000000)
    bSelected=True
    Begin Brush Name=Model7
       Begin PolyList
          Begin Polygon Item=outerwall Texture=mGrass7 Flags=524584 Link=0
             Origin   +00512.000000,+00000.000000,-00096.000000
             Normal   +00000.832090,+00000.554641,-00000.000000
             TextureU +00000.058124,-00000.087199,+00000.994494
             TextureV +00000.551587,-00000.827508,-00000.104795
             Vertex   +00143.907135,+00166.545731,-00416.000000
             Vertex   -00108.738869,+00545.573608,-00368.000000
             Vertex   -00108.738831,+00545.573669,-00064.000000
             Vertex   +00143.907166,+00166.545776,-00160.000000
          End Polygon
          Begin Polygon Item=outerwall Texture=mGrass7 Flags=524584 Link=1
             Origin   +00158.216690,+00486.940948,-00096.000000
             Normal   -00000.154199,+00000.988040,+00000.000000
             TextureU +00000.216315,+00000.033759,+00000.975740
             TextureV +00000.964070,+00000.150458,-00000.218934
             Vertex   -00108.738869,+00545.573608,-00368.000000
             Vertex   -00390.561401,+00501.590759,-00304.000000
             Vertex   -00390.561188,+00501.590698,+00064.000000
             Vertex   -00108.738831,+00545.573669,-00064.000000
          End Polygon
...
Flags=524584 mean
524288=PF_BrightCorners
+256=PF_TwoSided
+32=PF_Semisolid
+8=PF_NotSolid
So all polygons are nonsolid regardless what is set for PolyFlags for the Brush itself.
hee wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:12 pm
The surfaces appear to be one pixel wide
Where do you take this conclusion from?
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by sektor2111 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:48 pm

Lol alignment

Code: Select all

             Vertex   +00143.907135,+00166.545731,-00416.000000
             Vertex   -00108.738869,+00545.573608,-00368.000000
             Vertex   -00108.738831,+00545.573669,-00064.000000
             Vertex   +00143.907166,+00166.545776,-00160.000000

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Barbie » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:18 pm

Perfectly aligned on the 10^-6 grid.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by hee » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:51 am

Yes. This is a wonderful discussion, but nobody answered the question of the OP. How are these constructed??

To elaborate: I used the 2d editor and rotated it to create the foliage. There were two issues. After creating multiple trees, I could not match the vertices with other trees. I wanted a nice continuous canopy. The other issue was that I could walk on top of the trees (he set them to semi-solid), BUT I would like to go through the foliage. The collision specs already say no player block....so how did the rimeisle creator do it?

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by sektor2111 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:48 am

If Brush was edited in Notepad or done as Non-Solid and adjusted later result is like that...

@Barbie
Aside I'm curious what kind of Perfect alignment at XXX bla bla can be a thing having such data:

Code: Select all

Vertex   -00108.738869,+00545.573608,-00368.000000
Vertex   -00108.738831,+00545.573669,-00064.000000
I'm asking because that TRASH with non colliding floor from Tarmation2 had such sort of brush and I edited it for getting it as I considered. After editing that brush, BUG with non-colliding surface HAS GONE. One reason for non-colliding surfaces might be EXACTLY this "perfect" alignment, and I believe this is luck, Goblin was bitching at mapper but helping him - using bug on his favor. THIS IS NOT what I consider an aligned brush. 869 continuing at 831 and 608 continuing at 669. It simply has broken polygons and... Scales, resulting a non-colliding build.

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Barbie » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:23 pm

hee wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:51 am
Yes. This is a wonderful discussion, but nobody answered the question of the OP. How are these constructed??
Oops. Here you are:

If you want to add a new Brush, select "Menu > Brush > Add Special > Regular Brush > None Solid". Add this Brush, and if you like, set Brush's property Polyflags to "0" to get blue instead of green lines. If the Brush should not be transparent from inside, choose "Two Sided" at surface properties.

If that Brush already exists, select it and use "Menu > Edit > Cut" and open a text editor. Paste the clipboard content there and add the string "Flags=8" (PF_NotSolid) to the lines beginning with "Begin Polygon". (Or add 8 to the value, if the FLAGS attribute already exists). Then put all text into clipboard and paste it back to UnrealEd.
hee wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:51 am
The collision specs already say no player block
They have no effect at brushes.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Hellkeeper » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:51 pm

hee wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:37 am
I was looking at RimeIsle and there is a deciduous forest. The foliage is made from brushes that are semi-solid, but you can pass through them. It appears that each surface is one pixel wide. Does anyone know how to make these objects? I can't figure it out.
I haven't seen the map but aren't these just sheets? Sheets have no collission and no thickness.
You must construct additional pylons.

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Barbie » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:55 pm

Hellkeeper wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:51 pm
I haven't seen the map but aren't these just sheets?
Sometimes a picture tells more than 1000 words.
Attachments
Brush6.jpg
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by hee » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:43 pm

Barbie wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:55 pm
Hellkeeper wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:51 pm
I haven't seen the map but aren't these just sheets?
Sometimes a picture tells more than 1000 words.
OK. Notice that the pink color indicates semi-solid. Notice that it is a 3d brush. If you play the game, you will see that the brush is hollow with a one pixel width wall. (There is a place where you can see this by climbing up the mountain ridge through the foliage.) You gave me the basic recipe for making a basic brush, but that brush will not have these properties. I can find no tool in the editor to build this type of brush. I am not a beginner. I have built hundreds of brushes of different types, but I must be missing some key piece of information.

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Barbie » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:17 am

hee wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:43 pm
You gave me the basic recipe for making a basic brush
What is wrong or missing in my HowTo?
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

hee
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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by hee » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:41 am

Barbie wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:17 am
hee wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:43 pm
You gave me the basic recipe for making a basic brush
What is wrong or missing in my HowTo?
I was not implying that there was something bad about your directions, but they do not create the brush like in rimeisle100. I tested your directions with a cube and it did produce a hollow cube with a one pixel wall. There are still two issues.

1. How did he get this effect with a semi-solid brush?
2. The other issue is the peculiar shapes and his success at matching up the vertices for multiple brushes. I tried the 2d editor and used rotation to get the basic shape, but I was unable to match up the vertices with adjacent brushes exactly, even when reducing the grid size to one pixel. I do not understand why this would be a problem, but it was.

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Re: Strange 3d brush

Post by Barbie » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:58 am

hee wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:41 am
1. How did he get this effect with a semi-solid brush?
Where from do you know that a brush is semi solid? Ah, I see:
hee wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:43 pm
Notice that the pink color indicates semi-solid.
This is not necessarily true. A Brush consists of Polygons and they determine the kind of (parts of) a brush at long last. See what I've written here:
Barbie wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:09 pm
So all polygons are nonsolid regardless what is set for PolyFlags for the Brush itself.
Select a brush, open its properties, go to Brush and change Polyflags to 8: The Brush appears in green like a none solid one. Change it to 32, and the color is pink like a semi solid. If you enter 0, the color is blue like a regular Brush. If there are no contradicting flags for the polygons, the Brush will behave like its value in its property Polyflags. But the flags given for the polygons take preference over that. So these Brushes look pink, but because of the flags given for the polygons it behaves like a none solid.

hee wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:41 am
2. The other issue is the peculiar shapes and his success at matching up the vertices for multiple brushes. I tried the 2d editor and used rotation to get the basic shape, but I was unable to match up the vertices with adjacent brushes exactly, even when reducing the grid size to one pixel. I do not understand why this would be a problem, but it was.
I think he used intersecting or such. Build a 360° revolved brush and cut off a part.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind." --Terry Pratchett

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