Halting stuff

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I am halting with developement of everything basically until I get some funding *which isn't coming*, I'm sorry but I have to be able to eat. No customers for someone who has been helping me means no money, and I don't care if you think the covid restrictions are necesary., they aren't and they are causing poverty to happen. Plus I started to suffocate when being in an office last time for prolonged amount of time witrh the mask on, the breathing gets shorter and shorter especially if you have asthma. Its contra productive, you get running nose from all the shit and start to suffocate in the end. This will not magically solve itself and I am certainly not looking for poeople giving me advice right now.

It isn't a "deadly virus" that the media would have you believe and I know that from real experts. But those people will point and shout and call me delusional while they believe all the nonsense and the statistics that are being messed with and don't even show perfcentage. Plus count unconfirmed deaths automatically falling into the covid deaths cathegory. PCR quickie tests being counted into statistics when the author of said tests said it shouldn't be used for this.

I'm really disgusted.

[Delacroix]

I thought I'd reply with response to some of your points. You are both right and wrong here and I'll explain why.

I am halting with developement of everything basically until I get some funding *which isn't coming*, I'm sorry but I have to be able to eat.

Understandable. You can't really be making game projects in peace with your stomach demanding an urgent refill. Hell, I'd argue you can't even live without it.

No customers for someone who has been helping me means no money,

I am sorry that due to the lockdown businesses of various branches suffer.

I don't care if you think the covid restrictions are necesary.

And this is where we disagree. You see, I don't even care that you don't care. They ARE necessary, even though the price the entire society's paying for the lockdown is absolutely through the roof.

they are causing poverty to happen.

That's part of the price we're paying for the lockdown. Restaurants suffer, hotels, artists, owners of non-essential stores, the list is simply too long for the purposes of this post. Basically, if you're a non-essential, you're out of a job for all intents and purposes. There's likely to be a major reshuffle in the entire economy as the people realize what matters and what doesn't.

Plus I started to suffocate when being in an office last time for prolonged amount of time witrh the mask on, the breathing gets shorter and shorter especially if you have asthma. Its contra productive, you get running nose from all the shit and start to suffocate in the end. This will not magically solve itself and I am certainly not looking for poeople giving me advice right now.

Even though you're not looking for advice, I'll give you one. Shove a finger under the mask and lift it slightly when nobody's looking to get fresh air in. I sometimes have to do that myself. I have bullshit lungs myself, not asthma-level but I still can't complete spirometry tests properly. Of course it's going to suck with a runny nose but until we come up with something better...

It isn't a "deadly virus" that the media would have you believe and I know that from real experts.

If you know of any real experts, like doctors and nurses or epidemiologists, then please quote them. Named sources only. And ONLY medical professionals. This is a virus we're talking about, so it's a matter of medicine. If your expert isn't a medical doctor, a nurse or an epidemiologist, they are no expert.

The virus IS deadly. The WHO numbers are pretty serious. The only reason you're not seeing a spanish-flu style apocalypse event is because the medicine progressed greatly within the century that passed since. We have better protection, better drugs, better medical hardware. And to be quite honest, I don't think all countries are giving us real numbers, either. Poland? My own country? Whenever I ask a doctor or a nurse about the numbers, I'm hearing they're several times higher than official figures. That's HIGHER, not LOWER. I'm hearing this from people on the frontlines, so to speak.

But those people will point and shout and call me delusional

OK, I'll bite.



On a serious note, I don't see you as delusional. Maybe uneducated on the subject, but not delusional. If you doubt the numbers, ask a doctor.

while they believe all the nonsense and the statistics that are being messed with and don't even show perfcentage.

Even 0.01% of the world's population being dead from Covid, as some would have us believe, the world's population is eight billion. Don't you think that would be a pretty high number? Even one life gone thanks to this virus is one life too many. Whether the numbers are inflated or insufficient is irrelevant at this point. People are in fact dying. And initially it was just old people with additional sicknesses, now I've read like yesterday about a four-year-old being orphaned - father was thirty-something and mother wasn't even thirty. No additional sicknesses. And yet they've been extinguished <snaps fingers> just like that. At my wife's work, there already were two people quarantined with suspicion of covid (now released from Q), and one of her colleagues actually had it.

Plus count unconfirmed deaths automatically falling into the covid deaths cathegory.

I haven't heard of that happening in PL, does this happen in CZ? Well, to be honest, better be safe than sorry, a corpse can be a perfect storage for the virus so it's best to treat it as infected if you're not certain.

PCR quickie tests being counted into statistics when the author of said tests said it shouldn't be used for this.

Again, I'm going to need a source for this. I haven't heard of that happening. But it might be on a country by country basis. So things may be different in CZ, hell, you guys might even be using different tests.

----

To summarize, the virus is real. And the prevention measures are helping. In Silesia, there were talks that we were going to be a "black zone", with the largest number of new cases daily out of the whole country. A couple days later I'm reading an article that we managed to halve the spread. And that's not even with a full-on lockdown. In March we had a more serious lockdown and we had it almost under control. We let go, we became careless and now we're facing a second wave of infections that is even worse. And the experts, the actual experts, epidemiologists, doctors on the front lines, medical personnel were warning us that this would come. And yet the government downscaled on the restrictions for the economy's benefit and we're having a surge.

Until there's a vaccine, we can't afford to let our guard down. I'm sorry for those that are out of a job, out of income and suffering. I myself am out of a job and there's no perspective of things improving for me. So take it from me, I also am suffering due to the prevention measures.

But it's definitely better than having this pandemic continue unabated.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I heard reports from multiple countries, the stuff about dead bodies come even from ireland and the us. I don't think anything has changed, I think those people you mention that have died might have been misdiagnosed before and could have had weaker immunity or it's something else. I don't believe the criteria for this virus can change and I still believe its just another new flu that keeps popping every now and then.
So you can't have me agree on this. I don't have all the links anymore it's been sometimes months since I've read those reports but they do exist.

[Delacroix]

I heard reports from multiple countries, the stuff about dead bodies come even from ireland and the us.

Trump's US. Why does that not surprise me at this point.

I think those people you mention that have died might have been misdiagnosed before

As long as it's confirmed that they've had covid in their system, the initial diagnosis no longer matters.

and could have had weaker immunity or it's something else.

Weaker immunity is pretty common nowadays. And that something else is called additional sicknesses and can whittle you down enough for the virus itself to have short work left to do with you.

I don't believe the criteria for this virus can change

Because it can't change. It's a specific strain of coronavirus, it's by now been catalogued and will always be identified.

I still believe its just another new flu that keeps popping every now and then.

You're wrong. Influenza is caused by its own strain of viruses called the influenza virus. There are types from Alpha to Delta and Alpha, Beta and Gamma all infect humans while Delta is animal-only. They're also called Orthomyxoviridae. The Covid is a coronavirus, which is coronaviridae or Orthocoronaviridae. These are different viruses altogether.

So you can't have me agree on this.

Numbers? I don't have to. They change daily. Science? Well if you deny science, then it's your own funeral.

I don't have all the links anymore it's been sometimes months since I've read those reports but they do exist.

I understand but first: I am not obliged to prove your point for you so I won't be looking for them. You need to provide them yourself. Second: without links, I am afraid your claims aren't really of substance.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

You're kind of making the same point to me now that I made to some people at quaddicted a while ago, they didn't provide their raw data. I'm not sure its coincidence now, but I get it and it is a fair point but don't forget that people make mistakes.

And I believe they made a terrible mistake with this. Coronavirus is still in the same family as flu, same with sars and there are reports that this is in fact a strain of sars.

EDIT: You want some links? Fine give me a moment. Even the wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_ac ... onavirus_2
It is in the same parent family at the very least, orthonavirea, so you're right those are not influenza viruses it is however related to sars.

But to me right now those are semantics on the bigger scale. Flu or flu-like viruses that pop up every now and then and yes it can be dangerous but that's not really the point of those lockdowns as far as I see it, it is about the governments taking control and those authorities are fed up with the recent disrecpects to say the least....so they latched onto this yearly new virus to take repressive measures instead of supportive ones....

And I will not agree with it being the "price to pay".
EDIT2: What about special safe taxis for bus prices for vulnerable people (to the virus)?
How about extra cupes in trains for people with vulnerable immune systems.
grocery dileveries for those people arranged by municipality. I don't really see that happen.
Or if you're quarantined the government should pay income support whether you had black work or not, in this emergency.
Gratis quality masks for everyone who wants to wear them and feels the need to wear them avaiable from the municipality within reasonable limits.
EDIT3: What about halving production of luxury goods instead of repressing "those other businesses" huh? That would be much more beneficial!
EDIT4: There are many people saying that you can't put the genies back to the bottle, sooner or later everyone will have the virus whether weakened form or not.
The reason that the silesia might be something of a black zone is how Silesia is being exploited, the wood is being stolen to sell it onto french and romanian cars bound for IKEA production facilities so the locals are forced to burn coal, thus more pollution, thus more weakened immunity etc.

[RocketJedi]

I have asthma. I also wear a cpap mask 8-9 hours a night. it's uncomfortable and painful. I also have asthma and can breathe just fine in the mask. When I go onsite to my job that's 8 hours of it. The worst thing with the mask was it was hurting my goofy ass ears and working up a sweat.. bought a new mask that helps with that. There is ZERO excuse to not do the right thing. The only valid argument I read here was the state of the economy, and people losing jobs. It sucks.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

I have asthma. I also wear a cpap mask 8-9 hours a night. it's uncomfortable and painful. I also have asthma and can breathe just fine in the mask. When I go onsite to my job that's 8 hours of it. The worst thing with the mask was it was hurting my goofy ass ears and working up a sweat.. bought a new mask that helps with that. There is ZERO excuse to not do the right thing. The only valid argument I read here was the state of the economy, and people losing jobs. It sucks.

Maybe we disagree on what the right thing is then. And I don't have that type of a mask even, what I have is way worse and I can't breathe through it. But its the only size that fits.
"Human rights" are economic matter?

EDITL Misunderstood about the mask, the cpap I had to look it up, thought it was something else. It is separate from the mask you're wearing normally. But apparently people often get cpap because their wife can't stand the way they breathe.

[Red_Fist]

I am more afraid of the Flu virus. plus kids die from that and kids spread it.

Plus if someone has pre existing health problems ANY illness would take them down just the same.

I am using Stanley dust masks, has a thin elastic that goes around your neck and fit perfectly. LoL,,,also we have a store here with a walk-in beer cooler. It's a great place to test your mask, I could feel the heat going through the mask and not out the sides or the top. When you breath in, it sucks itself to the sides of your face.
It's the ones that have the little metal thing you bend to fit your nose.

They were gone, online, just everyplace, ah haha, I found right by our house at TSC they had 2 boxes of 50 at $22 each, I bought one box. Those around the ear things are too much mask torque LoL, be clamping the damn thing but they still move around.

The whole thing is wrong, the "cases" the government and now politics.

If masks work then there is no reason to let prisoners out, why hell, lets send sick people to rest homes, oh wait, they did that already. China should be dismantled from ALL "bio" virus research of I mean weapons err I meant research. They are still a 3rd world country in my opinion. Just because they have stuff that they took from others does not make them a superpower. They got sloppy and let that man made virus to escape. The virus is part AIDS, the cold and Bat DNA.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Not sure I understand "If masks work then there is no reason to let prisoners out", what are you refering to now? I'm not all informed about the events so I'd like to hear this out. Well I have my doubts about the origins of this thing, there is some china link alright but who says they didn't take it from someone from europe? After all the first found case was found backwards and in France but the hospital didn't recognize it in time as it was something unknown. There are many unanswered questions about this.
edit:


I also don't believe the virus can suddenly change to be more deadly to people like presented by Delacroix, so I call bs on all this. In fact enjoy your deadly vaccine people! I'm not going to get into that either. If you are advocating government repression then you better make a strong cause lmao.

Some links, not exactly the ones I meant but something at least.
https://english.alarabiya.net/en/corona ... man-expert
https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... -know-why/

This all points to situation being fabricated and some people already paid for their lives before this started, when it was all in preparation.

EDIT2:
"Italy and Spain, for example, have included anyone who died with coronavirus in its official toll, even if they had preexisting conditions that may have been the actual cause of death. Both countries’ relatively high tolls therefore may be inflated compared to countries that use other methods."
from
https://english.alarabiya.net/en/corona ... D-19-.html

And the bullshit goes on on even bigger scale now.

"
Swedish Professor John Giesecke has argued that lockdowns are ineffective in the long-term, will be difficult to exit, and are politically dangerous by giving too much power to governments.

Streeck added to Giesecke’s warnings by suggesting that governments such as the UK had entered lockdown too quickly. This is because the impact of any change in measures, whether initiating a lockdown or easing restrictions, can only be measured after two or three weeks.

He also said that it is not feasible to try to suppress the virus until the emergence of a vaccine – which according to optimistic estimates could be deployed as early as the end of 2021 – as there is no guarantee that one will even be successfully developed.
"

End of 2021 optimistic...see? This early vaccine will kill people. And it's more than that.

"
In contrast, the UK initially used a much less comprehensive method, instead counting only deaths from the virus itself and not preexisting conditions who may also have had the virus.

Whether a country carries out postmortem tests also plays a role: Italy does, while France does not, for example.

Even within countries, the method can vary – US states each decide their own criteria – while others including, China and Iran, have been accused of deliberately underreporting deaths for political goals."
EDIT3: COUNTING DEATHS as Coronavirus deaths from people who had contracted the virus but DID NOT die of it is also wrong and it means that Delacroix's statement is 100 percent wrong like he seems to try to teach me what is right what is wrong....blegh

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... using.html

[UTPe]

this is the reason why I fear the people, not the virus.

[Hellkeeper]

Oh look it's another one of these "The virus isn't dangerous, it's all a big plot by the US government, the EU, my local government, the UN, the WHO, the Chinese communist party, my neighbours, McDonald's and the Catholic Chuch to make people fearful and kill small business, also the numbers are bullshit and masks are dangerous even though millions of people now wear it deaily and we have seen 0 death from it" threads. I'm definitely glad we have one on UT99.org, the ones I see everywhere else just don't cut it.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

It's a plot by Doctor WHO rather.

No but really, don't try to ridicule me, I posted valid links, so you can't just shrug this off.

[UTPe]

don't try to ridicule me

really, don't need to do it, you do well by yourself.

"the comedian is tragic seen from behind" (Gerard Genette)

[Feralidragon]

Whoever tries to deny the current state of affairs in respect to Covid absolutely deserves to be ridiculed, especially since such a position greatly contributes for more deaths to happen, so those who deny it also have direct responsibility on those deaths.
Plus, many of those who actively denied Covid ended up catching it, and some of them ended up dying from it.

This kind of epidemic has always been predicted to eventually happen someday, and people across several organizations warned the world many times about this, and in the past several years there have been several moments where it could have happened already, but the viruses involved were either too lethal or were harder to spread or had a vaccine which could be quickly adapted to it, so the viruses just didn't have the right cocktail of ingredients to take on the world and died out pretty quickly.

I remember the times this happened, and although they never went as far as requiring masks, companies and such were forced to at least have the basic stuff, like hand sanitizers and safety procedures to follow in that regard, and travel was controlled more strictly with people going into quarantine.

But now a virus has appeared which has all the right ingredients to be a true world-wide threat, like it was predicted many times before.
It is extremely contagious, and is just lethal enough for the hosts to survive long enough to spread it further.
Plus, add in the fact that many do not even develop symptoms, but still carry and spread the virus, and you get what we're currently experiencing today.

This was always going to happen eventually, it just happens that it happened at the end of 2019 and all the way into 2020.

And the reason why deaths of Covid patients are generally all ruled as Covid deaths directly is for the same reason why a radiation poisoned patient death cause is ruled as radiation poisoning without further study: because it's too dangerous for a live person to perform autopsies on a corpse still carrying the same thing that likely killed the person, especially when doctors themselves making the treatments were often reusing the same masks and other equipment due to an early shortage of them across the world, and especially in countries who had it worse in the beginning (like Italy).

Furthermore, even if many deaths were complications of pre-existing conditions, it was more than proven that Covid directly causes those conditions to worsen, so Covid cannot really be ruled out as a cause most of the time, since it does directly contribute to it, more so than most other common diseases.
Recovered patients, even healthy ones, also often have lasting damage from this virus, like partial to permanent loss of the sense of smell/taste, respiratory complications (like developing asthma, reduced lung capacity, etc), and others.

Therefore, trying to deny and even fight any of this or any other similar fact is just royally idiotic and downright irresponsible, and you have no right to complain about life if this is how you decide to act: if you only believe in the wrong things and do the wrong actions, then you will only get bad results.

What happens in each country and how this is managed is a complete separate issue, and it all goes down to the fact that most countries were either not prepared for this and had no idea how to act, or had already something in place but their leaders decided to remove it before this happened, so they were left as defenseless as the rest (like in US).

Things won't add up in that regard simply over the fact that each country is managing this in their own way, some of them spectacularly well (New Zealand) and others spectacularly negligent (Brasil and US for example).
In Portugal (where I live), we have been managing it fairly well, especially in relation to other EU countries, and data is updated frequently by DGS (our country's health department) and can be directly analyzed by anyone to make decisions upon.

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Wow. A new low. He tells me I deserve to die. Hmm. You can drop dead right here yu worthless piece of scum I officially had enough!

Welcome to dictatorship and the praise for it.