[NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

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sektor2111
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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by sektor2111 » Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm

Arcaon wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:23 am
You guys should accepth finally i have never even made bot paths and never going to make any. I am making maps for multiplayer gaming and for a camping ladder. there is absolutly 0% need of bot paths.
700 800 Long Range Paths are hurting 0% a game with Players Only, more than that these are not costing any US Dollar. I won't ask why lifts are going up and they won't be moved at top for returning on the floor. Are triggers expensive too ? It's not only about the lack of paths, there are other things making these very restrictive for no reason - it's mandatory Translocator/LowGravity/Falling-Death mitigation and/or other tools otherwise all goes full of "small craters". These to me are valid reasons to not have more interest about such stages, or maybe it's just me... Have fun with these !

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by OjitroC » Wed May 05, 2021 11:15 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:45 pm
700 800 Long Range Paths are hurting 0% a game with Players Only, more than that these are not costing any US Dollar. I won't ask why lifts are going up and they won't be moved at top for returning on the floor. Are triggers expensive too ? It's not only about the lack of paths, there are other things making these very restrictive for no reason - it's mandatory Translocator/LowGravity/Falling-Death mitigation and/or other tools otherwise all goes full of "small craters". These to me are valid reasons to not have more interest about such stages, or maybe it's just me... Have fun with these !
Why criticise a map intended for camping sniping to be played by Players online for not having having botpaths - there's no point in trying to path a map which is intended to be played only by humans. If you path a camping sniper map so it can be played with bots it ceases to be a camping sniper map.

Of course a translocator is mandatory in a sniper map - that's how you move around! That the lifts don't come back up means you have to use the translocator to move elsewhere should you wish to move.

So yes, there is a reason things are "very restrictive" - it's a camping sniper map.

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by sektor2111 » Thu May 06, 2021 5:51 am

Do you have any clue about settings used in Sniper server #1 ? No ? Then let me explain some stuff for dummies.
- Server for less populated hours uses Bots for those 2 - 3 joined - trying to make some noise;
- Bots trying to roam around were bunching at teleporters having no other options;
- Bots bunching at Teleporters were triggering collision crashes in a shitty teleporting loop - not a single time in similar EMPTY spots with only teleporters in radius;
- Loading XC_Engine for preventing collision crashes returned certain movers stuck or doing other funky effects because that thing (I'm sorry for telling the truth) it's not too mature - it's like a burning boat abandoned.
First, do your work to maintain such a server and we talk After that not Before.
These could have 1 or two nodes heading at nearest weapon, no links to Teleporters are needed, and 7uck!ng Triggers for Lifts could be used because they are not costing anything and takes under 40 seconds to set them if you somehow are too drunk in that moment.
And these don't need Bot Paths - Where is coming from this rule ? I did not see any original map without Paths and TRIGGERS where movers are having a long Z route. Why the "rule" ? Simply because you, boys, don't know about setting up a lift with a trigger and neither having a clue what Bot does and how to deal with it, that's why. More than that I think forum has a Pathed sniper map with 3000 reachspecs and I don't see where is the damage for not following camping "rule".

Perhaps In future I'll spend some time for an Auto-Pather limited at a few spots, using XC_Engine - and setting up something for these poorly defined "LIFTS" because these are buttons and doors not lifts. It won't be accurate but... better than nothing. Either was Buggie has brough Paths View in Run-time, this can be really helpful at this point. First time I thought that was about ViewPort's Renderflags because... this is what Editor does when paths are shown, is changing rendering flags...

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by OjitroC » Thu May 06, 2021 10:03 am

sektor2111 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:51 am
Do you have any clue about settings used in Sniper server #1 ? No ? Then let me explain some stuff for dummies ...

And these don't need Bot Paths - Where is coming from this rule ? I did not see any original map without Paths and TRIGGERS where movers are having a long Z route. Why the "rule" ? Simply because you, boys, don't know about setting up a lift with a trigger and neither having a clue what Bot does and how to deal with it, that's why. More than that I think forum has a Pathed sniper map with 3000 reachspecs and I don't see where is the damage for not following camping "rule".
First I resent being called a dummy - why do you think you have the right to insult people?

Second, let's reverse the rule that isn't a rule (but is the intention of the person producing the map) - why should all maps have bot paths just because you think they should? People make maps, they make them with specific forms of gameplay in mind, if those forms of gameplay don't involve bots then the maps don't need to be pathed - end of story. There are a lot of IG CTF maps designed to be played only by humans - that's fair enough as are all the BT maps which I imagine bots would find dfficult to complete. Maps don't have to be played by bots.

If not pathing a map limits the audience for the map then that's up to the mapper.

This argument is senseless (in the literal sense) - the mapper has indicated the intended audience for the map - it's illogical and senseless to criticise the map for something it doesn't do and is not intended to do.

At the end of the day, does it matter? There are tens of thousands of UT maps out there, most of which are pathed. Does it matter that one new map isn't?

As an aside, the lifts don't need triggers to come back up as one uses the translocator to move elsewhere rather than take the lift back down - for sniping, surely the higher one is the better as one has a much wider view than one does being at ground level?

Finally, it is possible to play good sniper maps with bots where there aren't any botpaths - I've played for hours in some of the larger SUF maps or Chernobyl for example using one of the upgraded clan sniper rifles. It requires a different form of gameplay, one of stealth and cautious movement to get a sighting of where bots might be. Obviously they don't move much from where they spawn, though they may move to pick up nearby items. The player camps, looking for signs of movement or of action where one bot spots another - then moves around cautiously using the translocator. Some people may not find this challenging but, of course, if the bots see you, they can kill you and they may see you when you can't see them. Set a frag limit and see how long it takes to reach that limit - the fun comes in achieving that limit by stealth and without getting shot. It may not involve a lot of action (in the sense of running and guning) but then there is no reason why it should. As I say, it may not appeal to everyone but it is a valid approach nonetheless.

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by Red_Fist » Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 pm

Oh,,,,,be trashing on the BOTS !!!! :flag3:

You are doomed, you Bot hater. :shock:
Binary Space Partitioning

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by OjitroC » Thu May 06, 2021 8:18 pm

Red_Fist wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 pm
Oh,,,,,be trashing on the BOTS !!!! :flag3:

You are doomed, you Bot hater. :shock:
Me? I've got 320 bots all carefully and lovingly set up differently and individually (models, skins, voices, names etc - no two the same) over a long period of time. So, no - I love bots :lol:

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by TankBeef » Thu May 06, 2021 9:03 pm

Man, I don't care if the map is not "intended for bots", I will still load the hell of bots in them and play it. :lol2: You know what else? I will change the sniper rifle for a combo gib, even more fun!!! 8) Don't dare tell me how to play a map, you make it public, I will play it however it pleases me. That is one of the beauties of UT, adapt the game to whatever you like. No rules. Do not give me map rules, I will ignore them, guaranteed. :tu: Camping only? I'm gonna run and gun so much I will make Tony Montana jealous. 😁
Oh and yes Sektor, that "dummies" name calling thing? Not cool. :facepalm:

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by sektor2111 » Thu May 06, 2021 9:15 pm

But its' cool to crash servers because Teleporters are doing damage in these cases or you really don't get the problem ?
I get it, you don't care if a well ranked server it's crashing - that's cool indeed. Give me a break with these pathetic excuses "absolutly 0% need paths". YOU CANNOT BUNCH Pawns in teleporter like that :thudown: .
YES, people are working to maintain servers ALIVE and others are not giving a damn about this. All time I see these "excuses" when in fact we don't know what is a door and what is a lift, but very good at telling stories.
Last week I think I deleted 30 crash-logs, 70% based on Collisioncrash - Teleporter Touch, etc. Suure, that's great - like a toilette. Or maybe it's okay to move crashing in player instead of server :loool: . Go host servers and THEN we talk.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Thu May 06, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by papercoffee » Thu May 06, 2021 9:25 pm

All of you calm down now.

If the mapper doesn't want to add bots (pathes) then it's up to that mapper to decide if paths should be included or other things.
The same goes for the one who are supposed to download the map ...It's up to them to decide if this map will be downloaded.

tl;dr:
If you don't like it, no one has the right to force you to like it.

And since this UT, you all know where the editor is ...change what you doesn't like.
And² calling a person a dummy just because that person isn't agreeing with you is not really a mature behaviour.

End of discussion.
Now we are going back to the usual stuff. This map could work with redeemers as well.

EDIT-------------------------------------------------
@sektor2111 I would really appreciate it when you would watch your language.
Are those teleporters crashing when a player is going through them or only when bots do it?
If the first one then it's a bug report ...

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by sektor2111 » Thu May 06, 2021 9:32 pm

Teleporters in plain fields are always a problem when Bot spawns around and start blabbering around it having no other goal, not a single time happened this. And if these boys are continuing to make fun while servers are getting damage I'll use a similar language as response - I'm don't even think to say things different, and no I won't be agree with them here at all. It's about decent rules in making a stable map not a stupid Bot Hate for no reason. Sure, a triggered lift it's a NASA science...

The other guy was curious why were so many edits of his map - READ HERE then. Maybe you can understand that people don't need to use what you think it's well done or cool. Fist of all in public servers stability is factor #1 and not a random "great" idea.

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by papercoffee » Thu May 06, 2021 9:43 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:32 pm
Teleporters in plain fields are always a problem when Bot spawns around and start blabbering around it having no other goal, not a single time happened this.
Then don't add bots.
That map is not intended to be played with bots.

If you doesn't like this circumstances then add pathes yourself ...if you don't want to add them the don't play this map with bots.
It's really that simple.

For me I won't download this map because I like to play with bots.

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by sektor2111 » Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 pm

papercoffee wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:43 pm
Then don't add bots.
That map is not intended to be played with bots.
Exactly - you did not even read what I said before because you read only what you want to read.
HOF uses Bots MOZ used Bots last time when I was there a few years if I well recall - and not only these - because NOT ALL TIME a server is full but has two folks participating in stage. Other pathetic recommendations from Bot Haters ?
I'll bet on 10$ that they don't know to do paths, not because "are 'absolutly' not needed", that's why. Nothing is more annoying that this 'absolutly' term like this is the almighty sniper rule. Established by... Who ? All need is a few nodes spread here an there and ambushpoint in shadow/dark spots - heavy no wonder.
Last edited by sektor2111 on Thu May 06, 2021 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by TankBeef » Thu May 06, 2021 9:54 pm

papercoffee wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:43 pm
For me I won't download this map because I like to play with bots.
Believe me, it can be perfectly played with bots, just have to be creative. :wink: , plus it is very beautiful, those colors. :D

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by sektor2111 » Thu May 06, 2021 9:58 pm

TankBeef wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:54 pm
plus it is very beautiful, those colors. :D
This is why some people might want it finished - it's the stage when map starts to be edited X times.
papercoffee wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:25 pm
Now we are going back to the usual stuff. This map could work with redeemers as well.
Not so fast, dude, take it slow because I'm not done yet.
Redeemer were you saying ? You forgot SpawnProtection - another 'absolutly' mandatory stuff, like a strong Translocator, removing of fall-damage and all sort of downloads... jeez...

Code: Select all

WallHitting: PlayerStart1 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart1 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart3 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart3 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart5 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart5 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart6 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart6 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart9 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart9 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart14 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart14 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart16 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart16 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
WallHitting: PlayerStart19 is facing a closer wall, a rocket fired too quickly might be damaging.
LolPlacement: PlayerStart19 has a plain placement specific for n00b mapping.
SpawnRotationResults: 8 Playerstart actors might need another rotation.
Nobody was even bothering to adjust these starts elsewhere than with face at walls...

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Re: [NEW] DM-[WcF]WarfareHouse][

Post by papercoffee » Thu May 06, 2021 10:53 pm

sektor2111 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 pm
papercoffee wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:43 pm
Then don't add bots.
That map is not intended to be played with bots.
Exactly - you did not even read what I said before because you read only what you want to read.
HOF uses Bots MOZ used Bots last time when I was there a few years if I well recall - and not only these - because NOT ALL TIME a server is full but has two folks participating in stage. Other pathetic recommendations from Bot Haters ?
I'll bet on 10$ that they don't know to do paths, not because "are 'absolutly' not needed", that's why. Nothing is more annoying that this 'absolutly' term like this is the almighty sniper rule. Established by... Who ? All need is a few nodes spread here an there and ambushpoint in shadow/dark spots - heavy no wonder.

Ok just answer this question ...Why are you so fervid regarding this map?

do you like this map so much?
Is that the reason why you want it to be pathed, so it can be played on HOF's server?

Where is the problem for you to edit this map to your liking?
Strip down all the restrictions and path it as you want it to be pathed.

And who the hell do call all the time "bot-hater"?
Someone doesn't want to path his map ...good I won't download it because I like my personalised bots and I don't like camper/sniper maps.