Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

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Kerr Avon
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Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Kerr Avon »

I am currently installing more mods and levels for Unreal Tournament on to my old laptop, an Acer Aspire E1-570 (it has an i5 CPU, 8GB RAM, Intel HD 4000 graphics, and running Windows 10 64bit). I am currently using Unreal Tournament version 4.36, and everything is working fine, but I was wondering if I should upgrade to a later version of UT, such as patch 4.51 or 4.69.

What puts me off is that I'm sure I read somewhere that patches later than 4.36 can damage compatibility with some mods or fan-made levels, and I think I read that 4.69 can specifically stop some single player campaigns (things like Spatial Fear or 7 Bullets) from working. Is this true, and if so, are there workarounds or easy to apply fixes?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of going beyond patch 4.36, please? I never play online, so that's not a consideration for me, but I do like to use lots of fan-made maps and game modes.

Thanks for any answers.
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TankBeef
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by TankBeef »

Similar question asked this week, so I will redirect you here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15618
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Feralidragon
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Feralidragon »

Generally speaking, you should indeed use 469, because even if you just play offline, this patch brings a lot of improvements concerning crash fixes, great performance increases, proper support for more modern systems, etc.
This makes a lot of difference for some mods and maps (the ones which are more intensive in processing), being sometimes the difference between a lot of lag/crashes and a smooth experience.

Having that said, it does come with a few regressions as you mentioned, in which you may find some of those mods no longer working.
That is generally because the mods themselves either have native C++ components that need to recompiled against the new version (which are rare), or are total conversions that (wrongly) bring their own UT exe which is effectively the v436 UT exe with just some launch parameters added to it.

Some of the ones with the native components have already since been recompiled (if I recall correctly) or don't really need them anymore (like EXU2 OpenGL), and the ones with custom UT exes can be solved by replacing the exes themselves with shortcuts/launchers with the mod parameters set in them.

So whichever mod you have any issues with, feel free to report and people will likely help you out, either here or at discord, since most of those issues are known and are mostly a mod-side issue and not a patch issue, and there are ways to solve them.

There may be other issues with the new patches specifically related to your system and drivers, especially if you use AMD for example, which can sometimes be attributed to the bad quality of the drivers themselves, but these patches come with a wider selection of sound and render drivers, so you can just use a different one and generally whichever issue you had goes away.

Having that said, if you want to try the patch, you don't really have to endanger your existing UT install.

What you can do is to simply copy your existing UT install elsewhere to a new location, and then update that one only, and that way you get 2 versions on your end, and you will be able to try out the new one, and if you don't like it or it gives you too many issues, you can always return to the other one in your original install. :)
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OjitroC
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by OjitroC »

Kerr Avon wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:29 pm .. and I think I read that 4.69 can specifically stop some single player campaigns (things like Spatial Fear or 7 Bullets) from working. Is this true, and if so, are there workarounds or easy to apply fixes?
Spatial Fear won't run in 469c because, as Ferali refers to, it has its own .exe - similarly Stargate, Neo Cairo and the Thievery mod don't run for the same reason. 7 Bullets uses OldSkool and so there should be no problems running that in 469c.

Ferali has pointed to a workaround for those mods/campaigns with their own .exe - I haven't tried that and it would be useful to have more detailed instructions on how to do it.
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f7r
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by f7r »

Now for me 469b version is preferable. The best performance and less problems.
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TankBeef
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by TankBeef »

f7r wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:34 pm Now for me 469b version is preferable. The best performance and less problems.
Some maps freeze and crash. I get not everyone wants to play Orion's Curse or ChaosUT KOTH. But they crashed. And 469c fixed them. For example. :noidea
Kerr Avon
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Kerr Avon »

Thanks for the answers, everyone. I did as you suggested, Feralidragon, so I backed up my working v436 installation, then I installed v469, and almost everything is great, and having mouse-wheel control of UT's menus is fantastic! Most of the mods I have pre-installed work fine, such as:

Deja Vu – Gryphon Revisited,
Nali Chronicles,
Operation Na Pali,
Project Xenome - First Day,
Project Zephon - Battlef or Freedom v2.0,
Return To Na Pali - Ultimate Edition,
Xidia Gold Umod.



Three didn't work;

Spatial Fear – Prologue,
7 Bullets,
Unreal Fortress.


I managed to get Spatial Fear working by following the advice from:

viewtopic.php?t=14645&start=30#p123140

Quote "In fact I just found a solution for spatial fear mods: make a copy of the new UT exe and rename it to SpatialFear.exe" Unquote

but unfortunately, this doesn't work with Unreal Fortress (renaming a copy of UnrealTournament.exe to UnrealFortress.exe), as UT simply crashes to the desktop with the error message:

"Failed to enter Entry: Can't find BoolProperty in file BoolProperty Botpack.Bot.bViewTarget.

History: UGameEngine::Init <- InitEngine
".



7 Bullets doesn't even it's own .exe, but I copied the UT .exe file and renamed it 7Bullets.exe, and UT loads fine and with the correct 7 Bullets intro screen, but when I try to start a new game, it crashes to the desktop with the text:


"OldSkoolmapsClientWindow Transient.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow0 (Function olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow.IterateMapsQuick:03DD) Runaway loop detected (over 10000000 iterations)

History: FFrame::Serialize <- (Transient.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow0 olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow.IterateMapsQuick) <- (Transient.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow0 olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow.Created) <- (Transient.UWindowHSplitter2 UWindow.UWindowWindow.CreateWindow) <- (Transient.oldskoolnewgameclientwindow0 olroot.oldskoolnewgameclientwindow.Created) <- (Transient.OldSkoolNewgamewindow0 UWindow.UWindowWindow.CreateWindow) <- (Transient.OldSkoolNewgamewindow0 UWindow.UWindowFramedWindow.Created) <- (Transient.OldSkoolNewgamewindow0 olroot.OldSkoolNewgamewindow.Created) <- (Transient.oldskoolRootwindow0 UWindow.UWindowWindow.CreateWindow) <- (Transient.OldSkoolGameMenu0 olroot.OldSkoolGameMenu.ExecuteItem) <- (Transient.OldSkoolGameMenu0 UWindow.UWindowPulldownMenu.LMouseUp) <- (Transient.OldSkoolGameMenu0 UWindow.UWindowWindow.WindowEvent) <- (Transient.oldskoolRootwindow0 UWindow.UWindowWindow.MessageClients) <- (Transient.oldskoolRootwindow0 UWindow.UWindowWindow.WindowEvent) <- (Transient.oldskoolRootwindow0 UWindow.UWindowRootWindow.WindowEvent) <- (Transient.UTConsole0 UWindow.WindowConsole.UWindow.KeyEvent) <- UObject::ProcessEvent <- (UTConsole Transient.UTConsole0, Function UTMenu.UTConsole.UWindow.KeyEvent) <- UEngine::InputEvent <- UWindowsViewport::CauseInputEvent <- UWindowsViewport::UpdateInput <- WM_INPUT <- UWindowsViewport::ViewportWndProc <- WWindow::StaticWndProc (Message=WM_INPUT) <- MessagePump <- MainLoop
"

Does anyone know how to get Unreal Fortress and 7 Bullets running on UT v4.69, please?
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Diablo
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Diablo »

Here's what I do, keep 2 installations of UT, one with 469 for normal stuff and a stock 436 install for campaigns and stuff.
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Shrimp
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Shrimp »

Kerr Avon wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:40 am but unfortunately, this doesn't work with Unreal Fortress (renaming a copy of UnrealTournament.exe to UnrealFortress.exe), as UT simply crashes to the desktop with the error message:

"Failed to enter Entry: Can't find BoolProperty in file BoolProperty Botpack.Bot.bViewTarget.

History: UGameEngine::Init <- InitEngine
".
Hmm, this seems like it's related to the issue reported in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15481&p=139447#p139447

Although the conclusion in that thread was that it was "just a log message", in the case of UnF, it looks like it may actually have been a breaking change.

You can try duplicating your UT install _again_, but rather install the previous version - 469b - and see if UnF works with the copied exe solution.
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sektor2111
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by sektor2111 »

Title wrote: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?
ALL Versions. Explanations:
- Certain things were really improved in 469b++ and Textures tasks in Editor;
- In other hand I got some new crashes that are unavailable in 436;
- for simple plain gaming, you can finish your map at pathing task in 436 and follow SmerKat's and Polge's tutorials not other mystical stories and trying to reinvent the warm water;
- 451 is good only to do some tests, for mapping I claim it USELESS 99% (1% = Only rebuild map's geometry - you can earn a better lightning than in 436).

You cannot say "which" - all of them have (still) problems so you will need all of them. 95+% of time I'm using a 440 + XC_EngineV24.
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OjitroC
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by OjitroC »

Kerr Avon wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:40 am 7 Bullets doesn't even it's own .exe, but I copied the UT .exe file and renamed it 7Bullets.exe, and UT loads fine and with the correct 7 Bullets intro screen, but when I try to start a new game, it crashes to the desktop with the text:

"OldSkoolmapsClientWindow Transient.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow0 (Function olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow.IterateMapsQuick:03DD) Runaway loop detected (over 10000000 iterations)
...
Have you tried starting 7Bullets normally from OldSkool? It should run OK - it does for me so there is no intrinsic problem with running Oldskool and 7Bullets in 469c.

If running it normally from OldSkool results in the same error, have a look at your oldskool.ini in your /System folder and under
[olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow]
bQuickMode=True

change =True to =False and see if that makes a difference.
Kerr Avon
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Kerr Avon »

Thanks for the answers, everyone. If I can't get 7 Bullets and Unreal Fortress to run with v4.69 then I will install UT v4.36 and use the mods with that. I take it that there are no problems when using two or more installs of UT on the same system, such as corrupted or altered values in one installation when you are playing or molding a different installation, no problems with saves getting corrupted or mixed up, etc?




OjitroC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:44 am
Kerr Avon wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:40 am 7 Bullets doesn't even it's own .exe, but I copied the UT .exe file and renamed it 7Bullets.exe, and UT loads fine and with the correct 7 Bullets intro screen, but when I try to start a new game, it crashes to the desktop with the text:

"OldSkoolmapsClientWindow Transient.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow0 (Function olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow.IterateMapsQuick:03DD) Runaway loop detected (over 10000000 iterations)
...
Have you tried starting 7Bullets normally from OldSkool? It should run OK - it does for me so there is no intrinsic problem with running Oldskool and 7Bullets in 469c.

If running it normally from OldSkool results in the same error, have a look at your oldskool.ini in your /System folder and under
[olroot.OldSkoolmapsClientWindow]
bQuickMode=True

change =True to =False and see if that makes a difference.
Is that the way your 7 bullets installation is set up?

Oldskool, on my v4.69 Ut doesn't see Seven Bullets at all, at least not by name in the start new game dialogue box. Oldskool says it (Oldskool)is v2.38, but I'm sure the installer I used was Oldskool v2.39, is this normal? Oldskool does see a map called Entry.unr, which is the name of a map in the folder:

E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\Maps

but when I start it it goes straight to a pitch black room where I can shoot, and there is an Unreal Tournament logo

My 7 Bullets folder is set up like this (the way the installer set it up, I've not altered it)

Volume in drive E is E Data and Games
Volume Serial Number is 51E3-DCD0

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets

07/01/2023 14:50 <DIR> .
07/01/2023 14:50 <DIR> ..
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> 7BulletsExtra
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> Help
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> Maps
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> Music
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> Sounds
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> System
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> Textures
0 File(s) 0 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\7BulletsExtra

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> images
28/11/2004 06:05 68,556 -Commentary7B-.txt
14/10/2004 17:41 40,133 -Crowley'sLog-.doc
28/11/2004 06:35 12,362 -TheArsenal-.txt
28/11/2004 06:35 12,703 -USMCodeGamma-.txt
4 File(s) 133,754 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\7BulletsExtra\images

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
24/10/2004 17:51 28,958 7Blogo.bmp
16/10/2004 16:38 149,071 7Bullets1.jpg
16/10/2004 17:22 125,652 7Bullets10.jpg
16/10/2004 16:39 131,276 7Bullets4.jpg
16/10/2004 16:39 139,589 7Bullets7.jpg
16/10/2004 17:21 86,427 7Bullets9.jpg
6 File(s) 660,973 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\Help

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
25/07/2007 19:55 10,462 7BUEd.ico
25/05/2007 22:14 9,006 SevenBullets.ico
2 File(s) 19,468 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\Maps

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
11/06/2007 11:55 2,761,691 7B-Logo-Map.unr
17/10/2004 20:31 4,107,743 DM-7B-BulletTime.unr
23/10/2004 07:26 5,147,034 DM-7B-Sanguine.unr
15/10/2004 11:13 5,308,663 DM-Dinashar.unr
15/11/2006 21:59 11,617 Entry.unr
27/11/2004 23:49 6,434,161 Jones-01-Deployment.unr
27/11/2004 23:29 12,313,874 Jones-02-Darkness.unr
22/10/2004 21:41 11,936,404 Jones-03-Rogue.unr
24/10/2004 10:22 2,400,710 Jones-04-Trench.unr
07/10/2004 11:37 19,514,356 Jones-05-TemplePart2.unr
29/11/2004 02:14 11,831,131 Jones-05-TemplePart3.unr
24/10/2004 10:23 16,238,329 Jones-05-Trench2.unr
23/10/2004 01:54 22,174,073 Jones-06-Vandora.unr
29/11/2004 13:11 14,127,693 Jones-07-Noork.unr
24/10/2004 23:56 14,766,467 Jones-08-Pirate.unr
29/11/2004 02:32 13,233,237 Jones-08-Pirate2.unr
29/11/2004 02:26 17,882,926 Jones-08-Pirate3.unr
08/10/2004 13:55 4,652,565 Jones-09-Scar.unr
28/11/2004 00:48 14,326,305 Jones-10-End.unr
19 File(s) 199,168,979 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\Music

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
25/07/2001 09:58 60,205 7B-Beast.umx
12/06/2004 06:53 159,115 7B-Blood.umx
17/08/2003 16:00 249,955 7B-Combo.umx
01/01/1985 00:21 3,327,655 7B-confrontation.umx
17/08/2003 15:00 97,711 7B-Dark1.umx
17/08/2003 16:00 297,030 7B-Drago.umx
17/08/2003 15:00 2,254,419 7B-Duel.umx
14/06/2004 17:55 1,945,772 7B-Forlorn.umx
27/11/2004 04:45 4,863,306 7B-Goodbye.umx
09/08/2004 02:05 1,458,235 7B-GuardianRMX.umx
07/06/2004 03:52 2,152,307 7B-IntoTheFray.umx
17/08/2003 15:00 724,593 7B-Jones.umx
17/08/2003 14:00 118,375 7B-Reflection.umx
17/08/2003 14:00 399,221 7B-Spook.umx
17/08/2003 13:00 162,757 7B-USM.umx
17/04/2000 13:24 2,042,058 BeneathTT.umx
02/04/2002 18:49 481 Blank.umx
03/04/2004 14:50 2,692,823 UneternalSLeep.umx
14/06/2004 17:55 1,945,772 utmenu23.umx
12/07/2004 14:42 1,357,144 ZAN_MET.umx
20 File(s) 26,308,934 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\Sounds

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
10/06/2004 12:34 12,177,183 7BDialogue.uax
25/05/2004 05:20 1,840,355 7BJonesSpeech.uax
2 File(s) 14,017,538 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\System

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
01/01/1985 00:21 11,942 ParticleSystem_43.u
08/06/2004 16:47 399,658 SBva.u
31/12/2004 02:36 8,333,116 SevenB.u
07/06/2004 06:39 31,706 SKattackjet.u
22/10/2004 13:55 7,488 tehgrars.u
23/10/2004 14:27 208,111 UAPlantGen.u
6 File(s) 8,992,021 bytes

Directory of E:\Wingames\UnrealTournament\7Bullets\Textures

06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> .
06/01/2023 22:09 <DIR> ..
15/10/2004 12:12 1,754,606 7BBloodpackVariants.utx
14/09/2004 01:46 1,925,870 7BCreatureSkins.utx
26/10/2004 07:12 3,857,813 7BulletsTeamCredits.utx
07/06/2004 05:40 8,299,525 7BulletsTex.utx
22/10/2004 12:57 265,315 extragrasstex.utx
15/01/2002 09:05 1,465,094 OrganicDecor.utx
6 File(s) 17,568,223 bytes

Total Files Listed:
65 File(s) 266,869,890 bytes
26 Dir(s) 26,268,164,096 bytes free
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OjitroC
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by OjitroC »

Kerr Avon wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:53 pm Is that the way your 7 bullets installation is set up?
No - all my 7 Bullets 'stuff' is in the respective UT folder, so 7 Bullets music is in UnrealTournament/Music, the system files are in UnrealTournament/System, and so on.

Your installation should work provided all those paths like \7Bullets\Maps, etc are included in your UnrealTournament.ini under [Core.System].

I presume that the .int files for 7 Bullets are also in your \7Bullets\System folder? It looks like the sevenb.int file isn'f found by OldSkool and/or that the maps are not found.

I have so many Single Player campaigns that I keep them in a separate folder off the UT path and move the maps for the campaign I want to play into my UnrealTournament/Maps/SP folder, which is on the UT path (as set out in my UT.ini). All the other 'stuff' for the campaigns is in the respective UT folder and not in individual folders for each campaign. That way I have easy access to the various .u or .uax files from which I use assets in the ScriptedPawns I 'make' for MonsterSpawn - it also probably cuts down on the duplication of common music, sound and texture files used by SP campaigns and by other maps/mods.
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Masterkent »

7 Bullets may also be played on 227j )) The ported version has a widescreen fix for 7B HUD that scales top and bottom bars by vertical screen size, so they don't obscure the view and don't hide the clip indicator at the left bottom corner in case if you use 16:9 or higher aspect ratio.
2023_1_8_23_30_28_926-Jones-05-Trench2.jpg
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Kerr Avon
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Re: Which version of Unreal Tournament should I use?

Post by Kerr Avon »

OjitroC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:36 pm
Kerr Avon wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:53 pm Is that the way your 7 bullets installation is set up?
No - all my 7 Bullets 'stuff' is in the respective UT folder, so 7 Bullets music is in UnrealTournament/Music, the system files are in UnrealTournament/System, and so on.
I have just tried that, moving the contents of my UnrealTournament\7Bullets\ folders into their equivalent UnrealTournament\ folders (so the contents of UnrealTournament\7Bullets\map\ goes into UnrealTournament\maps\ , etc ), and now I can play 7 Bullets from Oldskool's New Game, so thanks very much for the suggestion.

I have one concern, though; when I moved the files across, there was one file clash, 7 Bullets contains a file called 'utmenu23.umx', which already existed in the
UnrealTournament\Music\ folder, and one file was larger than the other, so they obviously weren't identical. I did allow the new file (from 7 Bullets) to overwrite the old file (though I've kept a copy of the old file, just in case), and everything seems OK, but should I revert back to the original utmenu23.umx file in case there are problems, later, do you think?






Masterkent wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:43 pm 7 Bullets may also be played on 227j )) The ported version has a widescreen fix for 7B HUD that scales top and bottom bars by vertical screen size, so they don't obscure the view and don't hide the clip indicator at the left bottom corner in case if you use 16:9 or higher aspect ratio.

2023_1_8_23_30_28_926-Jones-05-Trench2.jpg
Oh, right. I've never played a single player campaign on Unreal, never played far into Unreal's single player campaign, if I remember correctly, though I have always meant to. I had to google '227j ' to see that it's the latest unofficial patch for Unreal, I do have the game (in a set called Unreal Gold), I should install the latest patch before I play it next.

Is there any advantage to play 7 Bullets and other mods/single player campaigns on Unreal rather than Unreal Tournament, or is it that hardcore fans tend to love Unreal more than UT? I know Unreal has a very loyal fan-base, and some very keen modders, but somehow it managed to pass me by at the time, but I should really give it another go, especially since the modern gaming scene is so dull and boring right now.