Xalian71's Maps

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autowah
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by autowah »

Thanks sektor2111! I totally see your point :)

As I hinted I am no programmer and have no such experience.
But if I had the slightest clue (or thought I did), then this is the first way I would try to solve this SkyWire issue:

----------


Let's pretend that DevPath only supports maps up to the size of a football field.
The map SkyWire you've just built is five times larger than that.
So, in order to try to fix this you add 5 instances of the DevPath pack into your map.

Example of the code you will try to put together:

Instructions for bots:
========================


Initial conditions starting point beginning of CTF map session:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bot 1, blue team, blue flag home base location = west side of the map.

Enemy = red team, red flag home base location = east side of the map.

Activate DevPath 1
IF blue team carries no red flag THEN move to the east as far as you can (according to DevPath 1)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 2
THEN move to the east as far as you can (according to DevPath 2)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 3
THEN move to the east as far as you can (according to DevPath 3)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 4
THEN move to the east as far as you can (according to DevPath 4)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 5
THEN move to the east as far as you can (according to DevPath 5)

WHEN done
THEN give bot the exact red flag location
THEN move to that location and capture red flag

---

WHEN red flag captured THEN activate DevPath 5 + "Blue Flag West"
THEN move to the west as far as you can (according to DevPath 5)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 4 ("Blue Flag West" still activated)
THEN move to the west as far as you can (according to DevPath 4)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 3 ("Blue Flag West" still activated)
THEN move to the west as far as you can (according to DevPath 3)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 2 ("Blue Flag West" still activated)
THEN move to the west as far as you can (according to DevPath 2)

WHEN done
THEN activate DevPath 1 ("Blue Flag West" still activated)
THEN move to the west as far as you can (according to DevPath 1)
THEN move to blue flag home base location

WHEN flag captured
THEN activate DevPath 1

IF blue team carries no red flag THEN move to the east as far as you can (according to DevPath 1)

.....

Repeat above until session ends

ADDITION to the map SkyWire: Instruct bots how to walk in and out of the sky lift, and give them orders to do it :)

-----------------------

Could that be a successful way to tackle it?


sektor2111 wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:55 am The problem that arises in such wide open spaces is whether "Devpath" can work. There have been maps for a long time that prove that the navigation in them is only spam without any use.
It's simple, you work to make all the logical links, you waste a lot of time to finish everything, and at the end nothing works anymore.

At the first time, some tests must be done, it must be found if we do not reach anywhere or we will have the expected results.
Let me see what's up...

Edit: Not a lot of testing and... it's already funny...
XAN was trying to protect carrier... and he was boosted away... He landed somewhere in "basement" (some BS area at bottom with ZERO purposes). That thing will be deleted, it's not like the map needs more "paths" just for the sake of having more spam added...
Swire4_1.png
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sektor2111
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by sektor2111 »

I'm not aware about so called "DevPath1" "2" "3" and such - what you say here it's probably another game, UT doesn't work this way so far. CTFGame is hard-coded as it is Bot - you can forget too many dreams at this point. Processing routing belongs to engine and has ONE instance per pawn by examining possible options and sorting the shortest road from all Paths Network, not exactly in pieces - maybe others are aware about other doing over Engine's natives. You might try to understand how do this game works - as in years 1999.
The thing is that bottom "basement" I removed so there it won't be any issue.
The rest of stage is interesting. In such a big map Bot switching assault route might be very far from a carrier unable to catch it. Also, in such big space they are not really sensitive at sight, can be easily eliminated.
Next, assuming they will come using those "lifts", perhaps human defender can ruin their happiness in advance and... it will be a waste of time camping nearby lift entrance - that would be the shortest way - to me it's useless and a bit heavy for Bots.
Of course, I had to add some ammo because... they were simply running like morons with ImpactHammer that kills... nobody at a far distance, just buzzing like a drunk fly. In my opinion this is not exactly a CTF stage suitable for Bots because they are not smart at all. They can navigate, they can capture flag in a good moment - lottery not skill - Arachne has captured flag holding ImpactHammer and other Visse Bot was trying to get Arachne Bot without success and... carrier Arachne scored after some time... Later Visse was eliminated by defenders.
I'll share a sort of Test Version for those curious about what's the deal in such maps with Bots - simply to me it seems that Bot is not coded for such stage, EPIC themselves did not do such sort of CTF maps... UE1 maps are not this way, and for the record, making a simple CTF map doesn't need any coding/programming.

At this time it looks covered in big parts with 642 Navigation Actors which are linking a Network with 1884 ReachSpecs - it is compatible with UT 436 so far regarding to Nodes boundary. The question comes concerning certain buildings (roofs) which will need some links too or else Bot boosted there and not dying will sleep there all day long. In this case if Nodes will go over 1000 pieces, map will get turned into a 469-only map... or paths need to be configured with a different optimization method - perhaps doable. I'll study possible extra-options.

So far this is current minimal stage for Bot Support.
MinimalStageSw4.PNG
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autowah
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by autowah »

Thx again for your extensive explanation. :)
There were a lot of details which I have no clue what they mean, but I understood that it's not easy, or maybe even impossible - if I understood you correctly.

I basically just play CTF instagib :instagib1: - and there is one server that I play on almost daily and that is this one:

(I'm probably one of the most boring players there. I only play all the time...after someone joins and we've been playing for half an hour or more - I look in the console and then sees that the other player has been trying to chat with me, and then gave up after 20-ish comments to finally leave the server. Then I get a bit of guilty conscience for being such a dull player :( )

======================================================================================================

Image


zp|-=Noobtown [FunServer JB-SLV-MH-DM..]

Admin email: noobtown@c.dk

Admin Name: Mik

CTF-game

Game version 4.40

Min. Compatible Version: 4.32

Dedicated Server

Mutators 1: Map-Vote LA14XL

Tournament Mode: Disabled

ngStats World Stat-Logging: Disabled

ngWorldStats Status: Not Processing Stats Correctly

https://cache.gametracker.com/server_in ... 5.77:7777/
https://www.gametracker.com/server_info ... 5.77:7777/

================================================

SERVER DETAILS Last scanned 45 seconds ago
SERVER SUMMARY
Name: zp|-=Noobtown [FunServer JB-SLV-MH-DM..]
Game: Unreal Tournament Browse: Unreal Tournament Servers
Address: 95.211.175.77 Port: 7777 Status: Alive
Server Manager: None - Claim Now!
CLAN INFORMATION
No clan info is available. Are you the game server owner?
If so, claim this server to add your clan's information to this page!
GAME SERVER RANKING
Game Server Rank: 172nd (67th Percentile)
67thHighest (past month): 119th Lowest (past month): 185th
CURRENT MAP
CTF-SkyWire4

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Current Players: 1 / 16
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Visit GameTracker.com for the latest game server information!

======================================================================================================

The DevPath1, 2, 3 etc was just something I made up. Borrowed the DevPath from your comment and thought that it was a code pack for UT99 map makers to use in their maps, and thought that it might have a built-in max size limit for maps.
So, in my head, duplicating that code five times seemed like a way to solve the issue. Yeah I know, that's how naively my brain works :help:

If the bots could just instinctively walk into the lift and then at arrival walk out, then at least they would start to fight the opposite team (bots).

If that's not possible, then another solution could be to make them spawn at ground level on the street. Then they would after strolling around a bit at least meet and fight the other team. (Maybe even put the flag bases there)

Next step could be to shrink the map just a tiny bit - so the InstaGib laser could reach them from the homebase roof.

Or, make a long bridge between the roofs.

Another idea, shrink the roof, remove lift doors and walls, make lift floor HUGE so the bots quite quickly walk into the lift.

Could either of those ideas work?


sektor2111 wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:28 pm I'm not aware about so called "DevPath1" "2" "3" and such - what you say here it's probably another game, UT doesn't work this way so far. CTFGame is hard-coded as it is Bot - you can forget too many dreams at this point. Processing routing belongs to engine and has ONE instance per pawn by examining possible options and sorting the shortest road from all Paths Network, not exactly in pieces - maybe others are aware about other doing over Engine's natives. You might try to understand how do this game works - as in years 1999.
The thing is that bottom "basement" I removed so there it won't be any issue.
The rest of stage is interesting. In such a big map Bot switching assault route might be very far from a carrier unable to catch it. Also, in such big space they are not really sensitive at sight, can be easily eliminated.
Next, assuming they will come using those "lifts", perhaps human defender can ruin their happiness in advance and... it will be a waste of time camping nearby lift entrance - that would be the shortest way - to me it's useless and a bit heavy for Bots.
Of course, I had to add some ammo because... they were simply running like morons with ImpactHammer that kills... nobody at a far distance, just buzzing like a drunk fly. In my opinion this is not exactly a CTF stage suitable for Bots because they are not smart at all. They can navigate, they can capture flag in a good moment - lottery not skill - Arachne has captured flag holding ImpactHammer and other Visse Bot was trying to get Arachne Bot without success and... carrier Arachne scored after some time... Later Visse was eliminated by defenders.
I'll share a sort of Test Version for those curious about what's the deal in such maps with Bots - simply to me it seems that Bot is not coded for such stage, EPIC themselves did not do such sort of CTF maps... UE1 maps are not this way, and for the record, making a simple CTF map doesn't need any coding/programming.

At this time it looks covered in big parts with 642 Navigation Actors which are linking a Network with 1884 ReachSpecs - it is compatible with UT 436 so far regarding to Nodes boundary. The question comes concerning certain buildings (roofs) which will need some links too or else Bot boosted there and not dying will sleep there all day long. In this case if Nodes will go over 1000 pieces, map will get turned into a 469-only map... or paths need to be configured with a different optimization method - perhaps doable. I'll study possible extra-options.

So far this is current minimal stage for Bot Support.
MinimalStageSw4.PNG
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papercoffee
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by papercoffee »

@autowah What has that server to do with the map?
If you want to promote a server do it in Clans and Community pages or when purely the server without any Clans behind in Servers.
autowah
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by autowah »

papercoffee wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:02 am @autowah What has that server to do with the map?
If you want to promote a server do it in Clans and Community pages or when purely the server without any Clans behind in Servers.
Thx papercoffee for letting me know :)
I'm new here, so sorry if I broke any forum rules.

I only mentioned that server because that's the only one that I know off that has it. But I haven't searched much tbh.
I think it was there I discovered it, and then googled it and found it at unrealarchive which has a big library of UT99-maps.

Thought that if anyone found it interesting how the bots behaves in SkyWire they could find it there.
Also I don't know if there are different botpacks out there, where one botpack could have smarter bots than the other?

The two maps I play the most there are:

CTF-UTDMS-Romra
viewtopic.php?t=14225

and

CTF-(UTW)Bud_and_Terence
https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... f3421.html (or this one? https://unrealarchive.org/maps/unreal-t ... bc502.html)

Image

Probably just because their really easy to get around :)
I often play them the last hour before I go to bed almost every day, it somehow relaxes me - ironically.

In particularly Romra is my favorite atm, especially when the game starts with the mutators low grav and relics.
The two monsters (I don't know even what kind it is) on each team really takes it to a whole other level :rock: !
Warning it's EXTREMELY addictive!! :satan:

Image

EDIT: The two monsters are SkaarjBerserkers. It was mentioned in the link I pasted :facepalm:
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sektor2111
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by sektor2111 »

autowah wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:09 pm If that's not possible, then another solution could be to make them spawn at ground level on the street. Then they would after strolling around a bit at least meet and fight the other team. (Maybe even put the flag bases there)

Next step could be to shrink the map just a tiny bit - so the InstaGib laser could reach them from the homebase roof.
Bingo ! Slowly we are getting into the same ground... Yes, it's way big for CTF - even with "Insta", Yes everyone spawns near flags and hyper-skilled Bots will wipe floor with any intruder coming there... or some sniper will spawn-killing a lot... To me this is not how CTF was defined, in some uber ScoreBoards perhaps the term "Fast Capture" is mystical. Waiting Lift ? Bad idea - you are a good target for snipers else for sure it needs some "shrink" for CTF. In open areas generally I find defenders useless, human player doesn't need a lot of intelligence for getting rid of them, this is what I was doing in my very first days of UT and CTF - eliminating closer threats. Just sneaking, aiming from certain spot and "Head-Shot" - grab Flag and run back (using places without paths or bad paths). In my really noob times I figured out that Bots have some "static" routes and they simply cannot find you in certain places.
autowah
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Re: Xalian71's Maps

Post by autowah »

Great :) That sounds promising
sektor2111 wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:29 pm
autowah wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2024 11:09 pm If that's not possible, then another solution could be to make them spawn at ground level on the street. Then they would after strolling around a bit at least meet and fight the other team. (Maybe even put the flag bases there)

Next step could be to shrink the map just a tiny bit - so the InstaGib laser could reach them from the homebase roof.
Bingo ! Slowly we are getting into the same ground... Yes, it's way big for CTF - even with "Insta", Yes everyone spawns near flags and hyper-skilled Bots will wipe floor with any intruder coming there... or some sniper will spawn-killing a lot... To me this is not how CTF was defined, in some uber ScoreBoards perhaps the term "Fast Capture" is mystical. Waiting Lift ? Bad idea - you are a good target for snipers else for sure it needs some "shrink" for CTF. In open areas generally I find defenders useless, human player doesn't need a lot of intelligence for getting rid of them, this is what I was doing in my very first days of UT and CTF - eliminating closer threats. Just sneaking, aiming from certain spot and "Head-Shot" - grab Flag and run back (using places without paths or bad paths). In my really noob times I figured out that Bots have some "static" routes and they simply cannot find you in certain places.