I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

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ExpEM
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I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by ExpEM »

Good (mapping related) news people! I exploded one of my fingers at work so I have some time to get back to work in the engine we all know and love.
The finger will be okay, I wont go into gory details but heavy pointy steel and soft squishy fingers don't mix well. Medical equipment is doing what it can to hold what's left together.

I've been playing around with the Sub-Level system in U227 and am planning to work on a Warhammer 40k-esk Space Hulk-ish walking simulator.
Aka I'm going to build and stitch together a bunch of starship-like maps with largely no gameplay.
If you don't know what a Space Hulk is then Google / Youtube it, basically it is a bunch of spaceships smooched together into a conglomerate structure, often taken over by alien enemies or other hostiles.

My first 'objective' idea is to stabilise power to the first ship section, power to this section goes out periodically and comes back briefly before going out again, see the movie Pandorum 2009 for reference.
While the power is out, lifts, doors and most lights don't work.

After stabilising the power core, the player then has access to other sections of the space hulk.

I'd be interested to hear other ideas for 'objectives' or scenarios or even locations inside the Hulk.

Skaarj are encountered wandering the long corridors and are the main antagonists.
Something something fight the Skaarj Queen at the end then escape in a scout ship.

Ideas people?
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by Aspide »

Hi ExpEM, sorry to hear about the finger, I hope you get better soon. The project that you are working on sounds very interesting. I have some ideas for you:

-A section of the ship has a radiation leak, so you need to use an alternate route to find a suit that will allow you to access the sections that are irradiated.
-The Skaarj are searching for a weapon that will allow them to destroy their enemies, you must not only fool the Skaarj search party with miss-direction but also destroy the weapon before the Skaarj or anyone else finds it.
-A section of the ship will explode after some time, you must complete your objectives and run away before the time limit runs out.
-You encounter some rooms that can only be accessed if you flood them with water by destroying some water tanks around the place.
-You need to collect a suit and then go for a walk in space, this could open shortcuts through the hulk.
-A section has a malfunction with the gravity engines, you must restore the engines to their normal parameters before the place is pressurized.
-One section has its doors sealed, but you find a survivor that is located in a place that allows for opening some doors, you both need to work together to progress and find a way out.

I hope you like my ideas :tu:
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

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Space pirates (human) have kidnapped X - you are tasked with (a) rescuing X and (b) undertaking a 'survey' of the SpaceHulk, looking for alien technology that may be useful/valuable.

Long distance scanning of the SpaceHulk indicates the potential presence of 'life' in more than one area - you can't spend too much time carrying out a lengthy long-distance scan as you don't want to reveal your presence to the pirates, so you land on a damaged/open part of the Hulk and make your way into the first sealed/airtight section - undertake your first objective to stabilise power, etc.

You work your way through the Hulk - undertaking some of the tasks/objectives from Aspide as you move onwards towards the first area where your scanners have revealed potential life-forms. You proceed with caution (obviously) expecting human space pirates but unsure of what else may be in the Hulk.

Unreal meets Warhammer - you reach the first possibly 'inhabited' area - scanners reveal vague lifeforms - then (horror) you pick up sounds of Genestealers (not that you know they are Genestealers but visual evidence from your scanners suggests strange and twisted sentient beings), luckily not that many. Do you destroy them or bypass this section? Can you bypass this section?

Having made a choice, what will happen happens - you survive (possibly) - you move on - opening sections, powering up - scanning for sound and lifeforms - moving slowly but determinedly onwards.

Then ... signs of something familiar ... Skaarj! Again not too many - a group of mainly weapon carriers, under the command of a Skaarj Lord - who have crashed and are stranded, trying to gather 'stuff' to communicate with their mothership. Again the dilemma - fight or avoid!

Fight for certain this time - you have the advantage of surprise - they are weakened by long years of inactivity on the Hulk (perhaps?) - you are, for now, well armed, fresh, eager. You triumph (hopefully) though weakened through injury and with your ammo and other resources depleted.

As you proceed you gather a few bits of 'stuff' - useful small pieces of tech or of weaponry, recording the presence of other stuff and, of course, importantly detailing your route so that you can return to your spacecraft.

Finally after more walking and negotiating obstacles, you reach your main objective - the area of the Hulk occupied by the pirates - can you rescue X, can you get back to your spacecraft (in time as the pirates have activated a self-destruct mechanism)?

A saga involving lots of walking/scrambling over obstacles/cutting your way through hulls/looking for and turning on long-dormant power sources/much recording of data etc, etc - punctuated by short but brutal pieces of action - with an opportunity to be captivated or horrified by the variety of alien spacecraft scrambled and mashed together - all driven by the need to free X from the ruthless and near-crazy pirates. Who is X? Why is X important enough to propel you ever onwards through the maelstrom of the massive Hulk?

-------------------------------------
Your idea sounds great - as a project it offers the chance to do so much with design, textures, sounds, etc. Personally I would, as indicated, include some gameplay and go a little outside of the normal Unreal SP campaign where Skaarj are the main opponents - something a little different is required I would suggest. I would even contemplate including a group of Descent-type human mutants - used to negotiating the cold, dark, damp interior of the largely dead SpaceHulk, just to add that frisson of twisted terror - there could even be a group of Daemons instead of the Genestealers as the Warhammer link/crossover - even more twisted, even more terrible.

Good luck with the project - hope you recover quickly :tu:
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

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ExpEM wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:39 am I'd be interested to hear other ideas for 'objectives' or scenarios or even locations inside the Hulk.
Have you played Space Hulk: Deathwing? Among the objectives used in the game:
- Lock a giant gate through which tyrannids are entering the ship (from another ship impacted into the one you're exploring)
- Find the remains of fallen brothers
- Reach a given position (extraction point, zone to secure, entrance of another part of the hulk, etc.)
- Find a collection of items scattered around a large area on several levels
etc.
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by OjitroC »

If we assume that the Space Hulk is made up of a number of human, skaarj and alien space craft all mashed together, then there is the opportunity to create a (small) number of environmental hazards or conditions. So, as Aspide suggests, a radiation leak perhaps or maybe a breatheable but slightly toxic atmosphere in one section that leads to a slow drop in our protagonist's health and requires a hasty search for the way to the next section to avoid further damage (of course, this depends on the precise nature of any protective suit that our protagonist may have or acquire en route). Other environmental hazards could include cold or heat (not too extreme but enough to have an impact on our protagonist's health and ability to function normally).

Given the variety of space craft and their origins, we could also posit some changes in the gravity in particular sections, lower or higher gravity would have an effect on how our protagonist could move around and introduce some interesting challenges.
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by ExpEM »

Sorry for the long time to respond (Wall of text incoming). I have been working hard on the first level "Habitation Block 1", Piks to follow.
Finger is doing well, a bit tender but well enough to go back to work where my co-worker promptly dropped steel on the adjacent finger severing an artery... So yeah, I'm not winning in the finger department.

I have to say how impressed I am with the improvements to the BSP Engine that 227j has incorporated, I have over 2000 Brushes with no zoning and no problems have cropped up at all!
Aspide wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am -A section of the ship has a radiation leak, so you need to use an alternate route to find a suit that will allow you to access the sections that are irradiated.
Absolutely yes.
Aspide wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am -The Skaarj are searching for a weapon that will allow them to destroy their enemies, you must not only fool the Skaarj search party with miss-direction but also destroy the weapon before the Skaarj or anyone else finds it.
Not to sure about this one, will circle back to it while developing a story line.
Aspide wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am -A section of the ship will explode after some time, you must complete your objectives and run away before the time limit runs out.
Good Idea, I'll need to come up with a "disposable" part of the hulk.
Aspide wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am -You need to collect a suit and then go for a walk in space, this could open shortcuts through the hulk.
I'm not so sure about this one, great idea but really hard to build the exterior of a hulk (I've tried a few times), may be a section that is depressurised instead?
Aspide wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am -A section has a malfunction with the gravity engines, you must restore the engines to their normal parameters before the place is pressurized.
I really like this, gameplay like the end of Unreal2 until it is fixed.
Aspide wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:40 am -One section has its doors sealed, but you find a survivor that is located in a place that allows for opening some doors, you both need to work together to progress and find a way out.
I'm not really planning to do any custom coding for this project, however you have given me a few ideas for multiplayer only sections.
OjitroC wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 2:19 pm Space pirates (human) have kidnapped X - you are tasked with (a) rescuing X and (b) undertaking a 'survey' of the SpaceHulk, looking for alien technology that may be useful/valuable.

Long distance scanning of the SpaceHulk indicates the potential presence of 'life' in more than one area - you can't spend too much time carrying out a lengthy long-distance scan as you don't want to reveal your presence to the pirates, so you land on a damaged/open part of the Hulk and make your way into the first sealed/airtight section - undertake your first objective to stabilise power, etc.

You work your way through the Hulk - undertaking some of the tasks/objectives from Aspide as you move onwards towards the first area where your scanners have revealed potential life-forms. You proceed with caution (obviously) expecting human space pirates but unsure of what else may be in the Hulk.

Unreal meets Warhammer - you reach the first possibly 'inhabited' area - scanners reveal vague lifeforms - then (horror) you pick up sounds of Genestealers (not that you know they are Genestealers but visual evidence from your scanners suggests strange and twisted sentient beings), luckily not that many. Do you destroy them or bypass this section? Can you bypass this section?

Having made a choice, what will happen happens - you survive (possibly) - you move on - opening sections, powering up - scanning for sound and lifeforms - moving slowly but determinedly onwards.

Then ... signs of something familiar ... Skaarj! Again not too many - a group of mainly weapon carriers, under the command of a Skaarj Lord - who have crashed and are stranded, trying to gather 'stuff' to communicate with their mothership. Again the dilemma - fight or avoid!

Fight for certain this time - you have the advantage of surprise - they are weakened by long years of inactivity on the Hulk (perhaps?) - you are, for now, well armed, fresh, eager. You triumph (hopefully) though weakened through injury and with your ammo and other resources depleted.

As you proceed you gather a few bits of 'stuff' - useful small pieces of tech or of weaponry, recording the presence of other stuff and, of course, importantly detailing your route so that you can return to your spacecraft.

Finally after more walking and negotiating obstacles, you reach your main objective - the area of the Hulk occupied by the pirates - can you rescue X, can you get back to your spacecraft (in time as the pirates have activated a self-destruct mechanism)?

A saga involving lots of walking/scrambling over obstacles/cutting your way through hulls/looking for and turning on long-dormant power sources/much recording of data etc, etc - punctuated by short but brutal pieces of action - with an opportunity to be captivated or horrified by the variety of alien spacecraft scrambled and mashed together - all driven by the need to free X from the ruthless and near-crazy pirates. Who is X? Why is X important enough to propel you ever onwards through the maelstrom of the massive Hulk?
All great Ideas, thank you! However I do have to be careful to not stray too close to Games Workshops IP AKA (Genestealers) because GW is notorious for suing the shit out of anyone and every one that infringes. Several 40k related modding projects have already been shut down with C&D letters threatening legal action. Even 40k lore YouTubers are getting targeted recently.
I am not against using a proxy in the same manner, may be some mobs from Spatial Fear? I'd also love to make a good chunk taken over by Unreal2 Araknids.
I'll look at this again when I've built more and start truly planning a story line / missions.
Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:25 pm Have you played Space Hulk: Deathwing?
No, I only have 3rd edition SpaceHulk, I'm not against getting my hands on a few PDF versions of the other versions / expansions to read over for extra ideas.
Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:25 pm - Lock a giant gate through which tyrannids are entering the ship (from another ship impacted into the one you're exploring)
- Find the remains of fallen brothers
- Reach a given position (extraction point, zone to secure, entrance of another part of the hulk, etc.)
- Find a collection of items scattered around a large area on several levels
etc.
-Locking off areas to prevent enemies from flooding in, can do but as said before GW IP is a no no, Araknids anyone?
-Finding remains of previous explorers / scout teams sounds like a great sub plot.
-Much of the game play will revolve around "go here for this reason".
-Fetch quests are generally hated (not quite as much as escort quests but still up there), I will likely add at least one but I really don't want to over do this one.
OjitroC wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:31 pm If we assume that the Space Hulk is made up of a number of human, skaarj and alien space craft all mashed together, then there is the opportunity to create a (small) number of environmental hazards or conditions. So, as Aspide suggests, a radiation leak perhaps or maybe a breatheable but slightly toxic atmosphere in one section that leads to a slow drop in our protagonist's health and requires a hasty search for the way to the next section to avoid further damage (of course, this depends on the precise nature of any protective suit that our protagonist may have or acquire en route). Other environmental hazards could include cold or heat (not too extreme but enough to have an impact on our protagonist's health and ability to function normally).

Given the variety of space craft and their origins, we could also posit some changes in the gravity in particular sections, lower or higher gravity would have an effect on how our protagonist could move around and introduce some interesting challenges.
At the very least I am planning sections based on Human (Vortex2), Human (ISV Kran), Human (RichRig.utx / Slums.utx), Mercenary (Terraniux), Skaarj, Skaarj (Queen.utx) as well as some Asteroid / Mining sections.
I'm sure I can find sections to mess around with heat, cold, void, radiation and gravity.
I have an idea for traveling through a melted down power core or reactor of some kind (Heat / Lava / Radiation).
Deus Ex has the Grey's that survive in radiated areas so may be a new mutant pawn that lives in radiated areas of the hulk?

I'm also thinking about adding automated defences and booby traps in long abandoned sections of the hulk that are still operating despite the lack of living inhabitants.

Screenshots were supposed to go here but the screenshot command seems to be broken on 227j...
I'll post an update when I figure it out.
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

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ExpEM wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:56 am
Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:25 pm Have you played Space Hulk: Deathwing?
No, I only have 3rd edition SpaceHulk, I'm not against getting my hands on a few PDF versions of the other versions / expansions to read over for extra ideas.
It's a video game. Nice but did not make a huge impact. I still play it occasionally and never have problem finding players. It's a poor man's Left 4 Dead with W40k theme.
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by ExpEM »

Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:20 pm
ExpEM wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:56 am
Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:25 pm Have you played Space Hulk: Deathwing?
No, I only have 3rd edition SpaceHulk, I'm not against getting my hands on a few PDF versions of the other versions / expansions to read over for extra ideas.
It's a video game. Nice but did not make a huge impact. I still play it occasionally and never have problem finding players. It's a poor man's Left 4 Dead with W40k theme.
I'd forgotten they made a pc game, I was talking about the 1990 boardgame that it is based off of.
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by Hellkeeper »

ExpEM wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 8:44 am
Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:20 pm
ExpEM wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:56 am
Hellkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:25 pm Have you played Space Hulk: Deathwing?
No, I only have 3rd edition SpaceHulk, I'm not against getting my hands on a few PDF versions of the other versions / expansions to read over for extra ideas.
It's a video game. Nice but did not make a huge impact. I still play it occasionally and never have problem finding players. It's a poor man's Left 4 Dead with W40k theme.
I'd forgotten they made a pc game, I was talking about the 1990 boardgame that it is based off of.
They made quite a number of them. Space Hulk:Deathwing is a Left 4 Dead expy, but other games like Space Hulk:Tactics are much closer to the boardgame.
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

Post by Red_Fist »

Only read a few lines.

But it just feels like there should be some star Trek character or a Borg or Fer ren gee, thrown in the mix.

Like releasing a prisoner, and it's spock
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Re: I exploded my finger! Sub-Level testing time! Ideas please.

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ExpEM wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:56 am ... I do have to be careful to not stray too close to Games Workshops IP AKA (Genestealers) because GW is notorious for suing the shit out of anyone and every one that infringes. Several 40k related modding projects have already been shut down with C&D letters threatening legal action. Even 40k lore YouTubers are getting targeted recently.
Fair enough - I wasn't aware of that. The only thing I would say is that there have been Genestealers in UT99 for over 20 years (plus, of course, much other stuff from/based on WH40K - models, skins, voices, sounds, etc).

U2 Araknids would be a good alternative though.