XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by EvilGrins » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:00 am

Okay, clarification.... the KillerQueens are resistant to being shot by XV. No matter which vehicle is doing the shooting, doesn't make much difference.

But if you ram them, and keep driving at them... that kills them quick!

The roadkill approach works.
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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Gustavo6046 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:24 am

The bots also have a tendency to get "stuck" in the weapon lockers with vanilla weapons with Instagib, or even Shock Arena. :(

Maybe a special desireability function (event float BotDesireability(Pawn Bot)) on the lockers that checks if the bot would get anything from the locker, would be a good way to solve that?

The spawnable check would happen at PostBeginPlay, and basically it'd test each of its weapon classes with Spawn, and if all of them fail (either returns None, or the returned actor's Class does not match the expected class, due to, say, a replacement, such as an Arena mutator's replacer), a bool variable saying the locker "doesn't work" is set, and this would be checked in BotDesireability, among other things.
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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by darkbarrage99 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:16 pm

Buggie wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:16 am
darkbarrage99 wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:19 pm
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. Are there any tutorials or instructions on how to properly path for the helico? I'm not seeing my sky path nodes link up in the editor.
Unfortunately, air paths not able link in UnrealEd as for now. Maybe in v469c this be possible (but not sure, since all depends from @Anthrax decision).
But bots inside heli able travel above ground paths, but less effective. So make path on ground, as usual, and ensure there is enough space above it for ride on heli.
darkbarrage99 wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:19 pm
Also I've noticed that in some maps the alt fire of the pulse gun heals vehicles and in others it does not. How is this enabled/disabled?
By default, pulse heal vehicle only if no FixGun or FixGunMutator on map.
And it heal only vehicles of your team.
You can control that heal in XVehiclesCTF mutator placed on map:

Code: Select all

enum EPulseForHeal
{
	PFH_Auto,				// Detect by presence FixGun on map, or by use FixGunMutator
	PFH_Yes,				// Pulse Heal vehicles
	PFH_No,					// Pulse not heal vehicles
};
var() EPulseForHeal PulseForHeal;
Much appreciated. :tu:

I noticed that the Redeemer projectile is also much faster, is there a way to enable/disable that via mutator?

I also wanted to ask, since you seemed to be able to change these variables without creating new weapons (as far as I can tell, I don't have much knowledge in code), would it be possible to increase the distance/range of the hitscan weapons as a feature? or at least Sniper? I noticed the sniper rifle fire does not make it across a larger map more suited for vehicles. just an idea. :sniper1:

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Buggie » Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:37 pm

you can set bDisableFastWarShell=True in VehiclesConfig.ini in section [XVehicles.VehiclesConfig] for disable fast demmer.

Hitscan distance hardcoded in weapons and can not be changed without subclassing them.
For example for sniper:
EndTrace = StartTrace + 10000 * X;

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Buggie » Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:46 pm

Gustavo6046 wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:24 am
The bots also have a tendency to get "stuck" in the weapon lockers with vanilla weapons with Instagib, or even Shock Arena. :(
Able reproduce only for InstagibDM mutator. This will be fixed in next version.
For ShockArena not able reproduce it. Ensure you use latest XV version.

Automatically merged

v39

- Reduce instagib damage.
- Disable translocator usage for VCTF. Can be allowed by bAllowTranslocator.
- Add Flag Voice Announcer for VCTF. Can be disabled by bDisableFlagAnnouncer.
- Fix weapon lockers for mutators which destroy items without replace them.
- Reduce redeemer speed.

Updated in first post: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14936

Automatically merged

If anyone need FlagAnnouncer as separate package, I can provide it in next versions.

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by darkbarrage99 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:15 am

Buggie wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:16 pm
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:24 am
The bots also have a tendency to get "stuck" in the weapon lockers with vanilla weapons with Instagib, or even Shock Arena. :(
Able reproduce only for InstagibDM mutator. This will be fixed in next version.
For ShockArena not able reproduce it. Ensure you use latest XV version.

Automatically merged

v39

- Reduce instagib damage.
- Disable translocator usage for VCTF. Can be allowed by bAllowTranslocator.
- Add Flag Voice Announcer for VCTF. Can be disabled by bDisableFlagAnnouncer.
- Fix weapon lockers for mutators which destroy items without replace them.
- Reduce redeemer speed.

Updated in first post: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14936

Automatically merged

If anyone need FlagAnnouncer as separate package, I can provide it in next versions.
:gj:

*incoming personal opinion*
if there's anything I've learned from playing VCTF in UT2k4, the translocator should not be disabled by default. I like the idea of being able to disable translocator via mutator in the map, but not having the translocator severely reduces the pacing of the game on large maps and should only be disabled on very flat and small maps. UT3 made up for it by introducing the hoverboard, and unless there is going to be a hoverboard or other default faster travel, I really do not recommend it.

also question: how is the instagib damage reduced in the mutator? I ask because I'm curious on how that could affect a modded weapon that is subclassed from the instagib shock rifle. For instance, an instagib shock rifle that does 100 damage instead of 1000.

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Buggie » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:32 am

VCTF set some rules. If you not like it, you can disable it.
One of it not use translocator. For fast travel exists vehicles. If there translocator vehicles goes to be useless, because they big, easy target and not offer any significant advantage.
Also I want be disable turn off self-damage, since this too allow travel very fast for skilled players, but unfortunately it is always custom code and hardly prevent it.

Main idea of this change - allow use CTF-XV- maps in mix with regular CTF- maps on common servers, without additional setup. This allow play it optional and less intrusive adapt players to it.
Now exists few dedicated VCTF only servers which is empty almost all time.
Setup XV map to popular CTF servers can help players learn this mode and maybe like it.

Instagib damage lowered by damage type, when you deal it to vehicles. Same as in 2k4 it deal only 5%.
For detection used damage type and amount. If it bigger 100, It is reduced.

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Gustavo6046 » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:21 am

Here's an useful .int for the mutators.

Code: Select all

[Public]
Object=(Name=FixGun.FixGunMutator,Class=Class,MetaClass=Engine.Mutator,Description="Fix Gun Mutator,Adds a fixgun in levels where there are none.")
Object=(Name=XVehicles.XVehiclesSummon,Class=Class,MetaClass=Engine.Mutator,Description="X-Vehicles Debug Summon,Adds mutator commands for spawning vehicles manually in the map.")
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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Neon_Knight » Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:32 am

Both sides have a point. In UT99, UT2003 and UT2004, all gamemodes (with some exceptions that directly disable the Translocator or limit it for gameplay reasons) feature a Translocator on/off option. As for UT3, it has a "No Translocator" mutator. Since the Translocator does add something to the gameplay (and in CTF in particular its an integral feature), most gamemodes have it enabled by default.

One of the biggest criticisms of UT2004's vehicle-based modes such as ONS and vCTF, however, is the lack of individual transports for those who can't manage to catch a vehicle, though it can be argued that this made dodge-jumping more integral to ONS/vCTF as a way to travel the big maps. UT3 removed dodge-jumping but added the Hoverboard (which every player spawned with) for vCTF/Warfare (there was, however, a "No Hoverboards" option for purists [*sigh*]). In XVehicles I see there isn't a solution yet to this problem (yet), so introducing an individual Hoverboard or another fast-travel mechanism such as Translocator enabled by default should be definitely considered.
Gustavo6046 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:21 am
Here's an useful .int for the mutators.

Code: Select all

[Public]
Object=(Name=FixGun.FixGunMutator,Class=Class,MetaClass=Engine.Mutator,Description="Fix Gun Mutator,Adds a fixgun in levels where there are none.")
Object=(Name=XVehicles.XVehiclesSummon,Class=Class,MetaClass=Engine.Mutator,Description="X-Vehicles Debug Summon,Adds mutator commands for spawning vehicles manually in the map.")
Neat!
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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Buggie » Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:02 pm

Introduce Translocator to VCTF 2k4, as I see, almost completely ruin vehicle usage.
Hellbender now used mostly as stationary turret. Which is be less useful if players able use xlocs.
Carry flags in vehicle even now very dangerous and rarely used. Mostly used booster speed with dodge move.
With teleport it goes be almost uneffective. A lot defenders able fast rush and chase flag carrier or invade opposite base.
Manta with annoyance be less effective, since you can simple avoid it by fast tele away.
Xloc dropped on base allow fast invade on base in big group of players. Which make defense line useless.
Turret, which control some bottleneck parts goes be useless too.

So as summarize - it change too many. And possible ruin everything. Maybe except damned Manta-run which already ruin original game concept too much.
Need rework maps, re-balance gameplay, vehicle stats and so on.

And nobody know if this possible at all.

Any such change ruin entire balance, on assumption on which build too much stuff.

Automatically merged

I already have some talks with PUGgers of CTF after they play in VCTF.
Most common opinion: vehicles weak, fragile, suicidable and better avoid from use it.
On server where they play, self-damage be turned off, they be skilled players. So they simple move fast as hell with own pro tricks, and vehicles give them nothing.

It is as another change (turn self-damage off), which look completely innocent, but fully rebalance (or disbalance) entire gameplay.

You can not pop-in and say "hey, people, lets turn translocator on". This not work in that way. Just because it used in CTF it is not mean it fit for VCTF.

Also attempt play in VCTF same as in CTF lead to bad experience too.
As more simple comparison - imagine DM play style in MH map. Such players appear on MH servers often. And fast leave since it is different game type, which require different game style, even if main point look same.
Or imagine DM player style in CTF. Chasing for frags, reduce own deaths almost at any costs, control resources, selfish play. I am sure team of good DM players loose to team of average CTF players which work as team.

Same for VCTF and CTF. What good and work for one game style, not necessary good or work for another.

So need be very rational on add or change some things. Game balance is fragile and very complicated stuff.

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by darkbarrage99 » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:06 pm

Neon_Knight wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:32 am
Both sides have a point. In UT99, UT2003 and UT2004, all gamemodes (with some exceptions that directly disable the Translocator or limit it for gameplay reasons) feature a Translocator on/off option. As for UT3, it has a "No Translocator" mutator. Since the Translocator does add something to the gameplay (and in CTF in particular its an integral feature), most gamemodes have it enabled by default.

One of the biggest criticisms of UT2004's vehicle-based modes such as ONS and vCTF, however, is the lack of individual transports for those who can't manage to catch a vehicle, though it can be argued that this made dodge-jumping more integral to ONS/vCTF as a way to travel the big maps. UT3 removed dodge-jumping but added the Hoverboard (which every player spawned with) for vCTF/Warfare (there was, however, a "No Hoverboards" option for purists [*sigh*]). In XVehicles I see there isn't a solution yet to this problem (yet), so introducing an individual Hoverboard or another fast-travel mechanism such as Translocator enabled by default should be definitely considered.
Thank you. And imo, dodge-jumping was not enough, and it actually became very annoying. You can only press w-w-spacebar so many times before disconnecting out of bordom. Many maps were also riddled with jump pads to make up for the lack of translocators, and those maps were usually ugly or too big. If you couldn't catch a vehicle on time, it usually ended with being spawn killed by Mantas/Goliaths/Raptors perpetually until a vehicle spawned, or dodge jumping across the map. It kinda sucked, and it's a big reason why vctf wasn't really popular in ut2k4, and the servers that were active had translocators enabled via mutator.

Another thing worth mentioning is how many of the vehicles were unbalanced in 2k4. The Hellbender was too slow, the Manta was arguably too fast as well as with the Manta-riding being a thing. Goliath was a slow bullet sponge. They fixed many vehicle issues in UT3, such as the speed of all of the vehicles. Scorpion had a booster and a regular mortar instead of the awkward green net, the Hellbender was a 2 man vehicle where the driver controls the skymine cannon and it was more maneuverable, Manta-riding was removed but all vehicles could be grappled when using hover board, etc. UT3 in my opinion has the most balanced vehicle set, which fixed a lot of problems.

ut2k4 vctf was not great. I'd go as far as to say it was broken.

But I'll say this about the translocator - in UT2k4 and UT3, it was not unlimited like UT99 and required a recharge. Perhaps a possible solution could be to create a translocator with limitations to stop spam?

I agree that Translo spam can ruin things, but I do not agree with buggie saying "Xloc dropped on base allow fast invade on base in big group of players. Which make defense line useless," to me that just sounds like a useless defense line regardless of vehicles or translocators. Respawning and going after the offence will always be a thing, and flag carriers can not use the translocator.

I already have some talks with PUGgers of CTF after they play in VCTF.
Most common opinion: vehicles weak, fragile, suicidable and better avoid from use it.
On server where they play, self-damage be turned off, they be skilled players. So they simple move fast as hell with own pro tricks, and vehicles give them nothing.
which vehicles are they using? what maps are they playing? if they're playing flat and open maps like bloodgulch or bl00dbath, those vehicles are easy targets.

if anything from what I've seen the tanks may be a little overpowered and the Jeeps could use a little boost in firepower. (add splash damage to cannons?) the helico's are very easy to kill, they may need a health boost? although, this is my experience in playing against bots. Are you planning on having damage buffers for vehicles like in ut2k4/ut3?

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Buggie » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:40 pm

darkbarrage99 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:06 pm
It kinda sucked, and it's a big reason why vctf wasn't really popular in ut2k4, and the servers that were active had translocators enabled via mutator.
If we talk about XVehicles - there exists option for allow use translocators.
Already here.
Only one line in config file.

Also I really want listen names of "the servers that were active had translocators enabled via mutator". AFAIK there only one alive VCTF 2k4 server now. It is server #1. MiA Warfare. And it NOT allow trannslocator.
So what you servers talking about? Please be specific.

I see only 11 VCTF server in GameTracker:
https://www.gametracker.com/search/ut2k ... uery=VCTF-
scr_1657305313.png
Second after MiA server is be on 37th position by rank.
Have "Average (past month): 1" players.
no players for last 24 hours.
Last time one player be 3 day ago.
For 30 days only once there be 2 players.
All of this mean - server completely dead in terms of alive players.
And I even not check turned there translocator or no.
Very likely NOT turned.
It is just info for show how "alive" second after MiA server. It is dead. So no point look into other with lower rank. They dead for sure and not really matter which mutator installed or not on it.

Automatically merged

darkbarrage99 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:06 pm
which vehicles are they using? what maps are they playing? if they're playing flat and open maps like bloodgulch or bl00dbath, those vehicles are easy targets.
They use jeeps + helis on few crappy maps.
On one vehs be completely useless.
Second is really bad conversion (by me) one map from ut99.

So yes, it is bad choice of maps.
But I spectate from 3 different angles and see easy mistakes which easily explain - it is they first experience.

Later I tune a bit vehs, with they advice, so they more strong now and more similar to 2k4 balance.

Tanks awful overpowered and except grey, hardly can be used, without make weird stuff like base raping,
darkbarrage99 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:06 pm
Are you planning on having damage buffers for vehicles like in ut2k4/ut3?
IDK what you talking about. Please explain.
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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Neon_Knight » Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:40 pm

2k4 vCTF scene isn't as active as it was on its heyday. The many problems related with running 2k4 itself (UnrealEd aside) that could only be solved by a new patch might have to do with that. Unfortunately it'll be a long time (if ever) before a group of 2k4 players can gather and get NDAs to update UT2k4. (Forget about Epic doing the patches themselves...)

In its heyday Manta running, as broken and cheaty-like as it was, was seen as a valid tactic. Many 2k4 vCTF purists despise UT3's balance, especially the removal of the Manta running tactic (guess why...). Such is the unfortunate nature of things...
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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by darkbarrage99 » Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:29 pm

Buggie wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:49 pm
darkbarrage99 wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:06 pm
Are you planning on having damage buffers for vehicles like in ut2k4/ut3?
IDK what you talking about. Please explain.
If I'm not mistaken, in ut2k4 the weapons did different amounts of damage to vehicles compared to players and the amount was based on a multiplier value? I could be wrong though. :ironic: I'm having trouble finding what I'm talking about. I was trying to make a custom shock rifle in 2k4 a while back and I'm pretty sure I saw something in the source that said "vehicle damage multiplier."

please somebody correct me if I'm wrong >_>

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Re: XVehicles (Network play) (VCTF, VMH for UT99)

Post by Buggie » Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:43 pm

On each damage type can be set
https://github.com/Deaod/UT2004/blob/05 ... ockBeam.uc
VehicleDamageScaling=0.850000
VehicleMomentumScaling=0.500000

And this already implement in XV. Damage to vehicles scales.