Epic has ended Master Server Support for all Unreal Tournament Titles - How to play Online

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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Feralidragon »

OjitroC wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:04 am However the FTC ruling and Epic's response recognises that, irrespective of the rating of a game, it may be accessed by children under the age of 13 - I quote from Epic's statement on the Agreement "Developers who create a teen-rated or mature-rated game can no longer assume that it won't be deemed to be directed to children, according to the United States Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). Younger players who are interested in higher-rated games can find ways to access them". What I have read of statements from FTC would seem to back this up by reference to the need to protect children under the age of 13 from online abuse.

All I'm saying is that there is possibly a link between the FTC Agreement and Epic's actions with regard to their 'older games'. It could just be a coincidence of course, but their decision to no longer want to sell or provide on-line services for a number of older games comes at more or less the same time as the announcement of the Agreement.
For those wondering, OjitroC is talking about this:
https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/ne ... -practices
and is such a load of bullshit (from FTC and Epic)...

I mean, look at Unity for example:
https://docs.unity.com/ads/en/COPPACompliance.html
they have a page specifically for COPPA compliance concerning contextual ads, and they, like everyone else, understand that COPPA is not applicable when the game is rated for a higher age ("mature" for example), because it's not supposed for children to be able to play it in the first place.

So it seems that in this case FTC went after Epic to make an example out of them (due to the big cash cow that is Fortnite), not just to make them comply with regulation, but also to create a huge legal precedent where the company has to consider that classifying a game as "mature" is no longer good enough for COPPA, although there's no legal basis for that, otherwise other companies would be on top of it (including Unity).

Which is so ridiculous because children will ALWAYS be able to access restricted content in one way or another, that's nothing new, and the only way of verifying someone's age, without legal documents or other means that would actually violate a child's privacy even further ( :ironic: ), is to just ask them how old they are, which as everyone knows it always works...
:loool:

I mean, if age verification is all that's missing from these games (besides the one already in the stores), that's something they could have easily added, or have let the community add them.

But once again, they're simply not interested in doing so, and ultimately that's the only truth that matters here.
So, again, they could do more, they don't want to, it's that simple.

This sucks... :wth:
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Shrimp »

I imagine they also got tired of maintaining some dusty old Win98 machine under someone's desk which was the master server, and they don't want to be bothered updating and maintaining the infrastructure needed for running such antiquated services they have no interest in updating to run on modern cloud services and the like.

At least UT3 was maintained within the last 15 years, and UE3 is probably closer to UE4/5 than it is to UE1, so it's "easier" for them to update both the backend and in-game stuff to support EOS and their store monopoly nonsense.

Not that that justifies purging all the games, even single player ones like Unreal from stores without notice, but I can kind of follow some semblance of reasoning for the course of action, even if it does seem misguided.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Red_Fist »

UT3 ?
Telling you, it's all about government control, is all it is. They think old games interfere with only THEIR way of thinking (freedom). Along with being able to know who is playing, it's all about tracking you.

WHY ?
The only interface that is all about being online as the menu, you have to check box to not be online. The interface for that game is like a browser. In UT3, That is the reason I didn't like it along with other things,just didn't like it. UT2004, same thing , but was the workup to make more money via the interface. It's not like you load a game , the whole thing was based as being online.


And if you think I am wrong, as opposed to just freewill playing UT99 or Quake 1 and not having to log on, or make an account, trust me, it's all them.

is why

STEAM ? same exact thing since Valve I know they started blocking patches for a game. Now you must be online and in STEAM, to make the game work. extortion via data collection. And you all standby defending the crap unknowingly agreeing with a given government , more or less.

Just glad I got in all of this and know the difference before government control took over, NOW here, oh ya, going after smokers, same old control, what a crock.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by OjitroC »

On a more practical note, it seems to me that there are around 60 public UT99 servers that are 'registered' on Epic's masterserver but not on the community-run masterservers.

One assumes that people who play on-line will not only have updated their ini settings to include the community-masterservers but also recorded the addresses of the public servers on which they currently play (or may wish to play on in future) just in case they are not registered on the community-masterservers.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Leo(T.C.K.) »

For once, I have to fully agree with Feralidragon in this thread, even though we often came to disagreements in the past to say the least.

But there is another angle to this also I heard, because of the european union..because it was possible to make purchases at the times it was said it wasn't possible and such...
it was about them getting to Epic via that transaction system that those kids used etc.

And well...I'm not going to sing praise for the EU, given what I know. There was a scandal recently with the european parliament and otherwise they're pretty untouchable it went on for years, but of course they are the first ones to create "mandates" and shit. It seems to me that Epic should have had thicker skin and loosened up on other things honestly, but yea...its all just "gears" in a machine, you know...it's all not a coincidence that their
biggest project after UT was Unreal Warfare which already had soldiers called "COG"s, no matter what it stands for, it is clear its a cog a gear in the machine, hence later they turned it into gears of war. Two engine switches until that game finally came out and was redesigned completely. But given that a lot of people around Epic including Tim himself (like his parents) had worked for Department of Defense and such...its not surprising, also that the first released game on the warfare (later UE2) engine was america army stuff...basically a propaganda game. Its like with Unreal they had them go "free" but then when there was success they started suddenly pushing all that military stuff at once, possibly also convinced by those powerful relatives.

Just trying to connect the dots you know.

Also you can bet 100 percent that if it wasn't for Tim's parents or other people like Mark Rein who pushed the marketing, Tim would not have been heralded as genius at all. He would not have became so succesful in the end.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by darkbarrage99 »

Feralidragon wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 2:12 am I've already said this in Discord, and I am also going to say it here.

We all know that the only game that they will keep supporting, as in having master servers, online services and being available in all store fronts (including EGS) is UT3.
Not only that, but UT3 will actually become UT3X, a free version of UT3, which might or not have more than just have the new Epic back end integrated.

What this coincides with is with the scheduled release of Creative 2.0 of Fortnite, which is apparently scheduled for next month (January 2023), as in late in that month, which is exactly around the time when they will shut down the master servers for the UT series.

For those unaware, Creative 2.0 is in fact a new version of the Unreal Engine 5 editor with all the Fortnite assets, in order to create content for Fortnite itself.
Among the many features that should come with it, the main ones are:
  • a new scripting language, called Verse (they dropped UScript in UE4 in favor of C++ and Blueprint, but it seems that now in UE5 they intend to have a scripting language again beyond those 2 options);
  • the ability to cooperate with other players (creators, developers) in real time from the editor, being able to start, pause and stop a real game at any point and perform any changes live;
  • the ability to upload all created assets to a cloud storage in Epic, and then the direct ability to use them in-game and share with other players.
In other words, it's as if Epic is setting up Fortnite to be the next platform for modding, like UT once was, however due to the age bracket the game is more popular with, in the end is basically Roblox in UE5 (you can already see that if you enter Fortnite and see all the custom community game modes).

What does this have to do with UT3X?

It seems to me that they've decided bring down the master servers at that point in time because they intend to go all in with the new back end needed to support Creative 2.0, and thus they decided to just drop all the old back ends which cannot be migrated over, opening a new chapter for them, while trying to close the chapter on us.

UT3X will be free, and I've read somewhere that it might be released on March 2023 (unverified).

No one knows what exactly it will bring, but it seems to me that them removing all the other UT versions from all the stores, along with shutting down the master servers, is an attempt from Epic to have just a single UT game available, and make it so that it's a new experience, especially for those who never experienced UT at all before.

Given that they will release it on Steam, GOG and EGS, replacing all the UT games they had, by removing the other ones they ensure that players do not get confused and all converge to this "new" UT version they're about to release.
Meaning that if, by then, someone searches for "UT" or "Unreal Tournament" or other, the one they will always find for thereon is UT3X, maximizing the effect of the release and potential sustainability of the game.

In other words, they're removing the UT games that would otherwise compete directly with UT3X, and which they consider to be already "obsolete".

I believe they're hopeful that existing and old UT players will try it out and converge into that single game, however what they're really mostly betting on is getting NEW players to experience the game for the first time, with no bias whatsoever from the other UT games, players that will go in with low expectations, meaning that these players may in fact like the game, given that UT3 is not a bad game by itself, it's just a bad sequel to the UT we already came to know and love.

And it's also a way to test the market at a very low cost, using the latest UT game, a game that unlike UT4 is fairly stable and is complete, and test whether or not players are still interested in arena games like UT, which may dictate the future of this franchise for the next years.

Should they migrate the game to UE5 as well, either now or later, it also grants UT modders the same tools ("Creative 2.0") that Fortnite players will get, which may give birth to the development of UT maps and mods again.

I could be dead wrong on this, but at this time we can only speculate until we see what actually happens.



Having that said, I want to be very clear: while the master server shutdown was an eventual inevitability, I don't like the fact that they're removing the games from the stores, especially since thus far they made no attempts to contact OldUnreal for a possible way to provide the game for free (maybe already patched).

So, regardless of what they intend to do with UT3X, it seems to me that they're being very shortsighted and disrespectful when it comes to the existing community, which are the greatest fans of UT as a series, by removing these games from the stores with no other alternatives to get them.

It seems to me that it would be a much smarter move to, at the very least, allow these old games to sit with the community, in the sense that they would be allowed to provide the full game for free, but only in places like OldUnreal for example, as it would still make the game available somewhere, in a semi-official capacity, while ensuring that the search engines would still return UT3X as the first results, towards Steam, GOG and EGS.

If they did so, I think existing UT fans would be a bit more sympathetic to the idea of UT3X and Epic in general, and would be willing to give it a try, while still being able to play and download the classic ones at any time.

Therefore, if what I described above is their end game, then their actions are actually understandable, but that doesn't mean that they're correct.
Excellent points. I think you hit the nail on the head. :tu:
Now that you mention Creative 2.0 and Fortnite Modding, I'm also fairly sure that they're trying to compete with Halo MCC and Infinite's Mapping and Modding recourses being available now.
The Halo Modding community is growing rapidly, so Epic is going to have to figure out a way to keep people from abandoning ship.
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OjitroC wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:03 pm There are 2 key points which seem to be overlooked in this debate :

1) Epic have not singled out UT99 nor, indeed, the UT series of games for delisting or ceasing to provide masterserver services - the key phrase in their statement in this respect is 'many older games' - a number of other games are to suffer the same fate as UT99;

2) the statement says " we will begin turning off out-of-date online services and servers for many older games in the Epic family as we move to solely support Epic Online Services with its unified friends system, voice chat features, parental controls, and parental verification features".

Recently Epic have agreed a 520m USD settlement with the FTC in relation to a number of actions over violations of COPPA. In part the allegations concern the potential for children playing Fortnite to be exposed to online abuse.

None of the games listed for 'removal' are able to provide parental control or verification, which would help to address the issues raised in the COPPA actions, and this, I think, is possibly key to the decisions regarding their 'future'. This may be merely speculation but a close reading of the Epic statement set out at the start of this thread and of their statement in responce to the FTC suggests that this may be the case.

In essence they are ceasing selling and/or supporting online services for those game not already part of, or not capable of being integrated into, Epic Online Services - thus removing the possibility of any further actions in relation to their older games. Note that the revamped UT3 will be integrated into EOS.
This is a great point, although the other UT games have an M rating, it's definitely possible they're sweeping the other UT games under the rug with the rest to avoid the possibility of children playing them online.
Red_Fist wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:38 am UT3 ?
Telling you, it's all about government control, is all it is. They think old games interfere with only THEIR way of thinking (freedom). Along with being able to know who is playing, it's all about tracking you.

WHY ?
The only interface that is all about being online as the menu, you have to check box to not be online. The interface for that game is like a browser. In UT3, That is the reason I didn't like it along with other things,just didn't like it. UT2004, same thing , but was the workup to make more money via the interface. It's not like you load a game , the whole thing was based as being online.


And if you think I am wrong, as opposed to just freewill playing UT99 or Quake 1 and not having to log on, or make an account, trust me, it's all them.

is why

STEAM ? same exact thing since Valve I know they started blocking patches for a game. Now you must be online and in STEAM, to make the game work. extortion via data collection. And you all standby defending the crap unknowingly agreeing with a given government , more or less.

Just glad I got in all of this and know the difference before government control took over, NOW here, oh ya, going after smokers, same old control, what a crock.
You raise some valid points. Although I sincerely doubt "da gubbament" is trying to watch us through gaming services, but I do know that the reason why a lot of this "Free To Play" model of distribution exists is for the sake of collecting and selling our data to the highest bidder. Considering Epic's connections with business in China now and what they do with data, it only makes sense.


____________________

These three points together, Have Epic bit off more than they can chew? They've entered the market of information and the lawsuits they're involved in aren't making anything any easier. They might be cutting whatever they can to save money... Then again, what am I saying? Epic is worth $18,000,000,000. A $520,000,000 lawsuit is a drop in the bucket for them.

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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Leo(T.C.K.) »

Yea...
the fact that they agreed to settle with the 520 000 000 fine says something...too

Btw that money will not go to the complains of the parents or whatever...those people who complained will get no compensation. it simply means the money will go just to the organisation, the eu....nothing more nothing less.

Just someone getting rich behind everybody's back from this. How can we find this all acceptable?
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by OjitroC »

darkbarrage99 wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:13 pm Then again, what am I saying? Epic is worth $18,000,000,000. A $520,000,000 lawsuit is a drop in the bucket for them.
It's about 1 month's income from Fortnite, based on last year's figures - no idea if that level of revenue has been maintained this year.

Automatically merged

Leo(T.C.K.) wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:54 pm Yea...
the fact that they agreed to settle with the 520 000 000 fine says something...too

Btw that money will not go to the complains of the parents or whatever...those people who complained will get no compensation. it simply means the money will go just to the organisation, the eu....nothing more nothing less.

Just someone getting rich behind everybody's back from this. How can we find this all acceptable?
Of the 520m USD, 275mUSD is a fine paid to the Federal Trade Commission (an arm of the US government) and 245mUSD goes to refunds to complainants. The EU is not involved in the FTC actions against Epic.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by darkbarrage99 »

Leo(T.C.K.) wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:54 pm Just someone getting rich behind everybody's back from this. How can we find this all acceptable?
Well you see... 23 years ago, we all bought this product called Unreal Tournament... :ironic:
OjitroC wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:03 pm
Leo(T.C.K.) wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:54 pm Yea...
the fact that they agreed to settle with the 520 000 000 fine says something...too

Btw that money will not go to the complains of the parents or whatever...those people who complained will get no compensation. it simply means the money will go just to the organisation, the eu....nothing more nothing less.

Just someone getting rich behind everybody's back from this. How can we find this all acceptable?
Of the 520m USD, 275mUSD is a fine paid to the Federal Trade Commission (an arm of the US government) and 245mUSD goes to refunds to complainants. The EU is not involved in the FTC actions against Epic.
Correct, unless Leo is talking about another lawsuit. Everyone wants a piece of that 18 billion.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Leo(T.C.K.) »

I don't know what it is then, it doesn't add up. I heard it via the grapevine about a lawsuit involving some EU organisation instead and I thought this was it, but maybe that other thing wasn't this high of an amount... and it was about the "microtransactions" specificaly, not about any "harmful content" thing.

So it must be either another lawsuit or some bs.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by OjitroC »

Leo(T.C.K.) wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:11 am I don't know what it is then, it doesn't add up. I heard it via the grapevine about a lawsuit involving some EU organisation instead and I thought this was it, but maybe that other thing wasn't this high of an amount... and it was about the "microtransactions" specificaly, not about any "harmful content" thing.

So it must be either another lawsuit or some bs.
Epic have filed an antitrust complaint with the European Commission against Apple - perhaps this is what you have heard about?
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Leo(T.C.K.) »

No, that stuff with Apple is way older. So it can't be that.

Automatically merged

https://www.oldunreal.com/phpBB3/viewto ... 43#p101643

Kajgue also posted this..it seems to me the EU thing might be somehow a combination or someone else confused this, because Kajgue's story includes the part with the purchases...
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Red_Fist »

Maybe I should reinstall UT3, it's not just the interface menus or the log on stuff, there was something I can't put my finger on as to why I didn't like it. Or a few things, I did buy it after all. Plus you can still make an all BSP map if you want, not meshed to death.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Leo(T.C.K.) »

But didn't they remove the log in stuff when they issues an extra patch that gets rid of the gamespy dependancy? Or was that instead to log in with their system? Because I didn't even try it as its been a while since I had UT3 installed.
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Re: Epic is turning off Master servers for UT99 & UT2k4; UTX Announced - What To Do?

Post by Red_Fist »

Leo(T.C.K.) wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:12 pm But didn't they remove the log in stuff when they issues an extra patch that gets rid of the gamespy dependancy? Or was that instead to log in with their system? Because I didn't even try it as its been a while since I had UT3 installed.
Not sure, but that does ring a bell, seems like they did do something with the logon part. I should replay it and get my permission from Steam and ALLOW me to play that damn crap that I paid for.

Plus I want to re check the editor, if it has one.
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